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Subject: Stream of Consciousness: a thread that cannot be hijacked


Date: Mon May 11 11:09:05 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
For those (such as myself) who don't pay the NY Times fee, I submit a couple other versions. The linked one mentions a personal friend of mine who played in that game, the non-linked one for a better historical perspective, and a nice Marichal anecdote. He threw 30 complete games in 1968 (244 for his career, more than half his starts), but didn't win the Cy Young Award that year because of the insane season Bob Gibson had (1.12 ERA) And which was also the year that Denny McLain went 31-6 and he and Mickey Lolich battled Gibson battled co. in the dramatic World Series, in which Gibson set the still-standing record of 19 Ks in Game 1. Yes, indeed, when men were men. http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_23576938/pitch-counts-not-marichal-spahn-era And altho I hate to give the Yankees any press, while we're on the subject, yesterday, their Michael Pineda whiffed 16 in 7 innings work, not walking a batter, and punching out at least 2 batters each inning. There have only been a handful of times in history that a pitcher has struck out 16 in 7 innings of work.

Link: another version

Date: Mon May 11 11:39:40 2015
User: wildcard
Message:
scum_of_the_depths - Western PA. Hmm....... GEE I wonder who that could be.

Date: Mon May 11 13:41:53 2015
User: scum_of_the_depths
Message:
It should be pretty obvious! ;) (scum was intended to be a one-time situational nick, but I left it up)

Date: Mon May 11 17:19:31 2015
User: joeygray
Message:
On the phrase when-men-were-men, it's appropriate to note that not all men were men. From Dizzy Dean to Herb Score to Mark Fidrych to Mark Prior, plenty of them blew out their arms early trying to be men, ignoring the terrible toll and/or terrible risks high pitch counts have on the human body. We know more now.

Date: Mon May 11 17:29:51 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Valid point. Herb Score was scary...

Date: Mon May 11 18:51:53 2015
User: firenze
Message:
A lot of pitchers did not blow their arms out in the old days. Today, even with short pitch counts, an excessive number of pitchers still blow their arms out and need the Tommy John. The men were men comment was meant to indicate that back then when a pitcher started a game, he felt he owned the game and wanted to finish what he started instead of thinking that all he has to do was six innings and turn it over to someone else. The old timers pitched a lot differently knowing they were expected to complete a game.

Date: Mon May 11 20:11:14 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
To paraphrase The_Interpreter: "Ain't nobody throwin' 30 complete games this year, nor almost certainly any other for the rest of time." (BTW, Will White threw 75 complete games in 1879, back when men were.....well......*real* men? And nobody has thrown more than Jack Chesbro's 48 since 1904. Nor even than Ed Walsh's 42 in 1908. Nor than Grover Cleveland Alexander's 38 in 1916. You get the picture....) (Also BTW, Cy Young threw a totally laughable 749 complete games in his career. And it's not like he started as a teenager; he was 23 when he pitched his first major league game. And that 749 is more than 100 ahead of second-place Pud Galvin, who in turn has almost 100 more than the third-place Tim Keefe. Easy to see why the premier pitching award carries his name.) The leader for all the major leagues last year was Clayton Kershaw, with 6. In 2013, 4 pitchers tied with 4 each. Wow - what a change.....

Date: Mon May 11 20:21:29 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Further BTW, only 3 pitchers have hit 30 complete games since 1968: Fergie in '71, Lefty in '72, and most recently, Catfish in '75. No one has had more than 20 since Blyleven's 24 in '85 and Valenzuela's 20 in '86.

Date: Mon May 11 20:46:47 2015
User: firenze
Message:
Do we need to get into the five vs. four man rotation?

Date: Mon May 11 21:23:59 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Totally discretionary in this thread. Wonder how many were in the rotation in1879 for the Red Stockings with White - considering the fact that he started 75 of their 80 games. LOL. I.e., he started 75 games, and finished 75 games.

Date: Mon May 11 21:33:12 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
'Course with the Civil War only 14 years past, it's kinda hard to call such work a hardship.

Date: Mon May 11 22:52:44 2015
User: BuzzClik
Message:
One of you may recall the movie from which this relevant quote (paraphrase) comes: A new manager has shown up to coach a bush league baseball team. He wants to have last season's best pitcher show him his stuff. He gets his equipment manager to bring over a radar gun to measure the pitcher's velocity. The pitcher kicks back, and tosses one to the catcher. The manager looks at the radar gun, and it is blank. Manager: "Is it broken?" Equipment guy: "No. We got that from the highway department. It doesn't register anything that goes less than 55 mph." That guy could have thrown a lot of complete games with no arm damage.

Date: Tue May 12 10:28:56 2015
User: scum_of_the_depths
Message:
Something I noticed in searching for info on my post above... http://larrybrownsports.com/softball/softball-team-hit-umpire-face-video/212975 "Apparently angry over calls not going their way, a fastpitch traveling softball team organized a play where the catcher would duck out of the way so that a pitcher’s pitch would intentionally hit the umpire in the face. The umpire realized the play was done intentionally and immediately ejected the coach, catcher and pitcher, and the game was called."

Date: Tue May 12 10:30:41 2015
User: scum_of_the_depths
Message:
Re. Buzz above, I suspect any complete games this guy pitched would be like 50 runs for the opposition.

Date: Tue May 12 20:02:02 2015
User: joeygray
Message:
Firenze, you are right of course. In fact, maybe only the guys blowing out their arms today are the ones who would have blown up 50 years ago, and everybody who is gettin coddled and babied and stays healthy would have stayed healthy anyway. I said we know more now... but I dunno, maybe we only think we do.

Date: Tue May 12 20:44:52 2015
User: BuzzClik
Message:
I'd be curious know what sort of velocity the old timers were carrying. I would think that their fast balls seldom broke 90 mph.

Date: Tue May 12 22:11:09 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Feller was assuredly in the 98-99 range, or more on occasion, but I suspect you mean *real* old-timers. Supposedly The Big Train was the fastest of the old-timers. I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess he far exceeded 90, and likely even 95, but it's probably a moot point.

Date: Tue May 12 22:48:45 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I guess for non-afficionados I should say The Big Train was Walter Johnson.

Date: Tue May 12 23:29:37 2015
User: firenze
Message:
Non-aficionados probably would not have known Walter Johnson. They said he was fast. Hard to measure back then. The really good pitchers don't need a really super fastball. With an identical delivery, a two speed fastball (86 to 92), a change-up and some kind of hook combined with good location are all they need to create a magical guessing game with the batter. A great pitcher against a great batter can be a battle disguising a work of art.

Date: Wed May 13 02:01:29 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I'd much rather watch a 1-0 game than a 9-5 one. As to speed, it was wonderful to watch a batter be way ahead of an 88 mph curve ball (not a slow pitch by most standards) because he was looking for 100 mph smoke. Point being, although you're not wrong about the needed qualifications of a successful pitcher, the ability to bring true heat just adds to the weapons, it being one in and of itself. Although I can imagine *some* non-aficionados not knowing, I would say that 60+% of same, in North America, if they're aware of the names Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, etc. - are also gonna know the name Walter Johnson. After all, he's in tier 1 of the all-time greats, with absolutely no debate.

Date: Wed May 13 06:31:21 2015
User: joeygray
Message:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure without looking it up he's one of the 5 original HOF inductees.

Date: Wed May 13 06:36:32 2015
User: joeygray
Message:
So now I did look it up and I remembered all 5 correctly,but learned something new: that Ty Cobb actuall got more votes than Ruth. From this 80 years later perspective that's astounding.

Date: Wed May 13 11:06:41 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Hmmm........there appear to be more anecdotal(??) evidences of hard throwers of years past than I imagined. Walter Johnson was compared (I guess side-by-side) with a speeding motorcycle. And there were chronographs used by the U.S. Army. And apparently Johnson was first measured in 1912, according to this site: http://www.efastball.com/baseball/stats/fastest-pitch-speed-in-major-leagues/#pre-radar "The speed of pitched balls has been of intense interest since the earliest days of baseball. Team owners and newsmen have long known that the public has a thirst for fastball speeds. The world's first speed test in 1912 of Walter Johnson and Nap Rucker became a sensation and made headlines all over the country." Lots more stuff out there, but I don't have time to dig further at the moment.

Link: Baseball Almanac's story about speed

Date: Wed May 13 14:22:00 2015
User: Snowguy
Message:
It seems to me that pitches on film from the earely days could be timed and calculated.

Date: Wed May 13 18:41:55 2015
User: Klepp
Message:
Chapman's hittable lately...

Date: Mon May 18 17:12:45 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
This is pretty cool. (Watch video.)

Link: "Make my day, you 100-eyed vermin!"

Date: Sat Jul 25 13:15:25 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I was trying to find another thread in which I posted another story (from SI, maybe) about an aging player who had Alzheimer's, but can't find it. Perhaps it's even in this thread, farther back than I care to search. But this thread has lots of baseball in it, so it's ok. Enywho..................this story isn't as good as that one, perhaps, but it's still worthwhile, with perhaps some important life lessons.

Link: The title is somewhat misleading, but only a little....

Date: Sun Jul 26 09:21:07 2015
User: BuzzClik
Message:
Fly-A-Salt: those flies aren't dead, just incapacitated. Toss them in the trash (which will actually be heaven for them), and they will have accomplished their ultimate goal.

Date: Sat Sep 12 12:53:21 2015
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Ok, this is pretty wild........two crazy science nuggets in one article, one of them a bit disconcerting..... Relatedly, I am pretty sure the vast majority of people don't get how rapidly climate change can/will accelerate once the permafrost melt gets going in earnest - as if.....

Link: mining for life?

Date: Sat Sep 12 14:51:59 2015
User: rws33315
Message:
Interesting article about climate change from September 1958 Harper's magazine.

Link: Harper's

Date: Fri Nov 11 10:14:07 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Interesting stuff.

Link: Heisenberg, and his principle

Date: Fri Nov 11 20:51:23 2016
User: BuzzClik
Message:
I used to be a big believer in Heisenberg's principle. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm waiting for Walter White to weigh in on this...

Date: Mon Nov 14 05:12:14 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Hey rws33315, Thanks for the Harper's article on climate change!! Fascinating, imo! Somehow I missed it when you posted it over a year ago, and I also missed it back in 1958! I didn't know any of that stuff! And, thanks TN. I always understood the Uncertainty Principle to mean that, at the subatomic level, you could not measure anything (position & velocity) without disturbing what you were measuring, so that it immediately changed to something different from what you had just measured! In social terms, I would speculate that if you want to describe another person, the process of getting to know them well enough to describe them changes them! More generally, humans are constantly changing/growing, for better or worse, and it is therefore "not possible" to know them "exactly", imo.

Date: Mon Nov 14 07:49:54 2016
User: BuzzClik
Message:
That article and the topic in general were easy to miss because it was an obscure theory that died quickly. Harper'salso printed several articles at about the same time on the Loch Ness Monster.

Date: Mon Nov 14 08:36:30 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Thanks Buzz. It seems clear that the amount of Arctic ice is currently in significant decline!

Date: Mon Nov 14 09:47:35 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Tony, your understanding of "the principle" is approximately correct, altho I would word it a bit differently. Speaking of the arctic............this is a scary prospect. Do you think the Russians are worrying about this as they increase mining and industrialization of Siberia? Mostly, no, I would guess. Next post will be about the probable acceleration of the thawing of the permafrost by microbes digesting organic matter as they 'wake up'.

Link: Superbugs in the arctic permafrost?

Date: Mon Nov 14 09:54:17 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Research is very scarce on this (link), and I haven't dug (pun intended) very deeply, but this is just one more way for the arctic to warm quicker than many think. And........this is in addition to the increased methane released just from the permafrost thawing "on it's own". And for those not hep, methane is even a much more capable greenhouse gas than is carbon dioxide, per molecule. If by some chance the Harper's article's theory is correct, we may well be accelerating that process faster than we can imagine.

Link: Microbes doing their part to heat us up

Date: Mon Nov 14 10:03:36 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
And now, as Monty Python would say, for something completely different (well, maybe not *totally*, as there is a theory that the melting of the ice sheets is contributing the motion of the tectonic plates)..... (And if by some chance some here are having a hard time understanding how an earthquake caused some of the odd-appearing damage in N.Z., I refer you to the process known as soil liquefaction. It appears to be what took place around these critters, but just my guess.)

Link: Cow Island

Date: Mon Nov 14 10:19:21 2016
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
All this "climate change" hoax will be moot after January 20, 2017 when the Forth one begins.

Date: Mon Nov 14 10:21:11 2016
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
Before u start, I left u out on purpose. u know who u are.

Date: Mon Nov 14 13:19:34 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Very interesting info for flu season.....

Link: Flu susecptibility depends on your birth year?

Date: Wed Nov 16 13:20:07 2016
User: The_Longhorn
Message:
):o Take me to Havana. ):o Moo.

Date: Tue Dec 6 13:27:12 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Ok, this really happened....

Link: Round one to the man

Date: Wed Dec 21 10:34:28 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Ok, I *think* this really happens....

Link: Playing with......er.......venom

Date: Tue Aug 1 03:01:06 2017
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Little bit scary........

Link: Facebook's bots go rogue with own language

Date: Sun Aug 13 02:42:25 2017
User: TNmountainman
Message:
“You think your pain and your heartbreak are unprecedented in the history of the world, but then you read. It was books that taught me that the things that tormented me most were the very things that connected me with all the people who were alive, who had ever been alive.” ― James Baldwin

Date: Sun Aug 13 08:47:58 2017
User: ix
Message:
 

Date: Sun Aug 13 10:26:23 2017
User: outskirts
Message:
I was reading Baldwin at a very young age. I loved his work. I didn't know until decades later that he was black, or gay.

Date: Tue Aug 15 10:13:59 2017
User: Klepp
Message:
I'm curious how long it will be before Congress goes Eastern Europe and starts brawling right there in the aisle and up at the podium.

Date: Tue Aug 15 10:17:56 2017
User: BuzzClik
Message:
If it gets votes from their base? Tomorrow.


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