Subject: Never won winnables!
Date: Wed Jan 16 13:28:42 2019
User: joeygray
Message:Of course you play all your 8x4s at the 10 level, but (almost all) your 5x7s at the 5 level (and almost all the rest at 6). So a direct comparison of the two as to what strategy will and won't work awaits our decision to play all 'random' 5x7s (level 10) and I for one am not volunteering to do that!
Date: Wed Jan 16 13:43:55 2019
User: TNmountainman
Message:If you look at the all-time list for 5x7, and sort by winning percentage, you'll see Hop at 98+% (but only 54 plays); etaoin (possibly/probably(??) a bot or with solver help; 172 plays) at 95+%; and progamer (100%, and I think a known bot with 30 plays). I still have considerable doubt about Hop's playing methodology, as he didn't refute my earlier suspicions, and he also showed proclivity for "scripting" by showing how to solve a game 2-3 weeks ago (which doesn't *prove* anything). But that's just my suspicions; not an accusation. But it's also noteworthy (imo) to look at his rather absurd winning percentages in some difficult- to semi-difficult variants, too. But I digress...……
Hop has won 80+% of 4x8s, but with only 62 plays. I also doubt 80% are winnable (note I said "perhaps" above). I was (mostly) referencing climate 5 games, as that's all most people will ever get to. If one includes all climates, it's more likely to be something like 60-70%, but that's purely speculative. The Sprockmeister has won 56% on 395 plays, but hasn't gotten past climate 6 in "streak" play, so maybe 55-60% would be more likely.
Your strategy of putting more cards than "usual" (meaning, say, the more typical 8x4-ballpark flavor) was also discussed in moderate detail back several years ago - on this board. When we first started doing the SSCs, many players had no experience with narrows or wides, and so were looking for advice. Myself and others advised them on just your strategy. Clearly it is an advantageous tool to have in one's toolbox, and familiarity with it, especially for the narrows, and sometimes it's very handy for the wides, too.
[And I see you're still trying to creep up on said 12x0 record...…..]
Date: Wed Jan 16 13:45:30 2019
User: TNmountainman
Message:Note: I had not seen joey's post before getting mine above all fixed up and ready.
Date: Wed Jan 16 16:51:06 2019
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:I finally found free@last's data again.
5982 4x8-5.txt
That is the number of unwinnable 4x8's at level 5. So...yeah...that actually turns out to be less than 19%. So, TN, you were even undercounting. More than 81% of level 5's are winnable in 4x8. I'm sure I noticed that before and then forgot it again because it's so surprising.
We don't have the data for 5x7 at level 5 but we have this:
606 5x7-6.txt
So yeah...that's less than 2% unwinnable. 98% of level 6's are winnable!!!
James
[I will never stop trying...12x0 is my favorite. The good thing about losing a streak is I get to play them again. Don't jinx me now. Don't you want someone else to get to 60?]
Date: Sun Jan 20 19:29:18 2019
User: Klepp
Message:9X1 7852, Took me two tries, 30 previous losses...
Date: Tue Jan 22 16:47:40 2019
User: Klepp
Message:9X1 26687, Two tries, 23 previous losses...
Date: Sat Jan 26 13:05:37 2019
User: FreeMyCells
Message:6x5 winnable #25090 0 for 22 so far.
Date: Sat Jan 26 18:20:09 2019
User: Twinkel
Message:Does anyone know how to solve 13724, which came up in my streak of 13x0 supposed "winnables?
Date: Sat Jan 26 19:06:38 2019
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:Twinkel,
Put the three of clubs on the four of diamonds. This allows you to get to the eight of clubs. Now you can move the 7 of diamonds on that eight. Put the five of clubs on the six of hearts. Now you can move the three clubs off that four of diamonds with a five of clubs to put that four on. Soon you have a free column. It's not totally obvious after that either, but it is doable.
James
Date: Wed Jan 30 16:38:21 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:This was a good game to win (after loosing my personal best 5x7 streak at 36):
Game: 5x7 9400-5;....... Plays: 5;....... Wins: 1;....... Percentage: 20.00.
Date: Wed Jan 30 19:16:29 2019
User: TitanicTonys_deckofcards
Message:It wasn't my fault he lost that streak! I performed exactly as directed by my master. He just made a mistake and tripped himself up.
Date: Wed Jan 30 19:49:03 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:It wasn't the first time, and it (almost certainly) won't be the last (sigh).
Date: Sat Feb 2 08:29:27 2019
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:Well,
This one was tough IMHO.
Game #: 12x0 11914
Game stats: 3/1/33.33%
Difficulty: 6
Elapsed: 20:10
Date: Sat Feb 2 10:53:05 2019
User: TNmountainman
Message:Agreed. Got it first try, but it was far from simple. Now 2/4.
Date: Tue Feb 5 12:53:16 2019
User: TNmountainman
Message:5x6 #17721-5. Now 1/6.
Date: Fri Feb 8 07:46:28 2019
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:Today's threat:
Game #: 7x3 6199
Game stats: 19/1/5.26%
Difficulty: 11
Elapsed: 6:08
Date: Mon Feb 18 21:13:50 2019
User: joeygray
Message:Game #: 6x5-5 17802
Game stats: 32/1/3.13%
Elapsed: 6:34
Whoa. Tricky, but not THAT tricky.
Date: Sun Feb 24 02:38:23 2019
User: Klepp
Message:10X0 13676 not easy
Date: Mon Feb 25 04:27:03 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:Ha, I just got a good one!!
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 10x1 12593
Game stats: 8/1/12.50%
Difficulty: 6
Elapsed: 3:06
Streak: 17
Today: 1
Date: Mon Feb 25 17:19:42 2019
User: Klepp
Message:10X0 3562 17 previous losses, though not too tough
Date: Sun Mar 3 17:07:04 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:Well, I wasn't quite the first to win this one, but almost, and it was indeed a tough one!
Congratulations! You Win.
Game #: 5x7 4974-5;....... Game stats: 47/2/4.26%.
Date: Mon Mar 4 00:07:36 2019
User: TitanicTonys_deckofcards
Message:It indeed was brutal. I bet we played that game over 40 times before we got it right.
Date: Wed Mar 13 04:06:26 2019
User: Klepp
Message:9X1 24290-5 23 previous losses
Date: Fri Mar 15 15:41:56 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Game #: 6x4 13291
Game stats: 40/1/2.50%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 3:20
Streak: 2
Today: 2
This game came up after getting dealt over a dozen winnable 6x4's but never managing to win more than two of them in-a-row.
Date: Sat Mar 16 12:10:58 2019
User: Klepp
Message:7045-5 9X1 40 previous losses
Date: Sat Mar 16 20:00:04 2019
User: Klepp
Message:22788-5 9X1 22 previous losses
Date: Wed Mar 20 13:45:03 2019
User: Klepp
Message:27002-5 9X1...26 previous losses, one personal
Date: Fri Mar 22 21:24:37 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Happy to get this one and a bit surprised at the stats after they were revealed:
Game #: 6x4 8759
Game stats: 60/1/1.67%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 4:09
Streak: 3
Today: 7
Date: Wed Mar 27 09:32:24 2019
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:Almost gave up this one:
Game #: 12x0 20655
Game stats: 4/1/25.00%
Difficulty: 6
Elapsed: 12:31
Date: Wed Mar 27 17:05:01 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Second try here too. But at least it only took 1:18.
Date: Wed Mar 27 17:42:47 2019
User: ix
Message:if we were both paid hourly for playing freecell, i'd wave my cash in your face
Date: Wed Mar 27 22:56:49 2019
User: Kaos
Message:For a long time playing here ( that would be at least a decade) there’d be a few days a week where I’d stare at a game until I could see some reasonable line of play to victory but now it seems to be trying to win any deal, no matter how tough, in 90 seconds or less.
Date: Fri Mar 29 14:34:14 2019
User: Klepp
Message:23143 9X1 16 losses, one personal
Date: Fri Apr 12 17:55:36 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:OK, I wasn't the first, but it was definitely tricky:
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 10x1 12793-5
Game stats: 45/2/4.44%
Date: Sat Apr 13 12:51:41 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:This one was way too difficult for me: Sorry You Lose
Game #: w10x1, 30558
Game stats: 56/0/0.00%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 24:23
I am very curious how it can be won?
Date: Sat Apr 13 14:38:06 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Definitely tricky - but that is the nature of many 10x1 games. Congrats on winning it.
Date: Sat Apr 13 15:34:00 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:I didn't win it; it is still 56/0/0.00%.
Do you know how to win it?
Date: Sat Apr 13 18:36:01 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Hey Ellie, I was talking about your post from yesterday about: Game #: 10x1 12793-5
Game stats: 45/2/4.44%
I queued it up yesterday but did not play it until this morning. As to:
Game #: w10x1, 30558. It took a few tries (not all of them mine) but now:
Game #: 10x1 30558
Game stats: 71/1/1.41%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 3:09
I think the key is to clear column 6 without burying the AS.
Date: Sat Apr 13 18:58:18 2019
User: Kaos
Message:Oops, that's not correct. That was one of several ways that I played it into a losing position. The key is to clear column 3 and then park the 9H there.
Date: Sun Apr 14 05:10:37 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:Thanks, Kaos, but I still couldn't get it: Sorry You Lose
Game #: 30558
Game stats: 81/1/1.23%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 8:30
I can't seem to get to either black 5, or either red 3. I can get up the 3C, and both red Aces, and still have a freecell, but no more moves after that. I can even get up the 4C, but that doesn't help. Maybe I'm going blind?
Could you please tell me your opening 15-20 moves so that I can finally get it?
Date: Sun Apr 14 17:51:10 2019
User: Kaos
Message:OK, no wonder this game is so hard. I had a really hard time trying to re-win after solving it twice (and now 3 times). Of course, I think I've posted bad hints twice now.
I don't have the steps recorded but below is a link to a picture with the board setup just before the game cracks open.
Link: Very Tricky 10x1
Date: Mon Apr 15 12:23:26 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:Kaos, thank YOU very much! I finally got it. I'm not sure where I went wrong, but probably I always put the H8 on the C9!
Maybe I really am going "blind"??
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 10x1 30558
Game stats: 114/3/2.63%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 2:31
Thanks again, 😉!
Date: Mon Apr 15 17:01:29 2019
User: Kaos
Message:You are welcome.
FWIW, I think there are two ways to solve this game. The first time I won it, and posted about clearing column 6, I did not keep good enough notes and when I went back to try it again, I couldn't find that solution and instead found a more roundabout way to do it weaving the 4's, 5's, and 6's together and ultimately getting to the 3H that way. Alas, again I did not take good enough notes so that path was lost. (Also, I gave up before the game finished to not get counted twice in the game win stats). But, yesterday I managed to re-discover the first route to the solution and included the screen capture.
Date: Thu Apr 18 19:10:02 2019
User: Klepp
Message:18891 9X1-5 36 losses--one personal, alas...
Date: Mon Apr 22 06:16:17 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:Once again, I wasn't the first to win, but I was very pleased to win:
Congratulations! You Win;.... Game #: 5x7 26699-5;
Game stats: 12/2/16.67%;.... Elapsed: 3:05;.... Streak: 7.
Date: Fri Apr 26 06:40:05 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:Wow, I had given up thinking about this ridiculous 6x5 (regular), but decided to "play it out" anyway.
Thank you, FreeMyCells and kangaroo!
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 6x5 10185-5
Game stats: 22/1/4.55%.
Date: Wed May 8 20:34:56 2019
User: Ellie2
Message:Wow, another really difficult game:
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 6x5 4193-5
Game stats: 50/2/4.00%
Date: Mon May 20 16:35:21 2019
User: TitanicTony
Message:This might be my most difficult w10x1 ever:
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 10x1 7788-10;..... Game stats: 3/1/33.33%;..... Streak: 52;
Moves: 46;..... Card moves: 131.
This was another interesting game, which I played in custom mode, because I had just won it as a 6x6, and thought I could also win it as a 6x4:
Congratulations! You Win
Game #: 6x4 2122;..... Game stats: 4/1/25.00%.
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