Subject: 8x3 Level 7 Project
Date: Mon Sep 25 13:36:19 2017
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:When I don't have time for streaking (which is most of the time, these days), I sometimes practice by playing through the 8x3 Level 7 unplayed/unsolved deals. If anyone is up for a challenge, you can join me in completing the set. As of right now, all deals through 3600 have been attempted.
Date: Fri Dec 1 14:06:29 2017
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:I have now completed the first 5000 deals. These are the unsolved deals, with an * representing fewer than 10 attempts.
21
66
306*
320
328
358*
517
737
784*
824*
1207
1212*
1342
1357*
1457*
1496
1926
2029*
2083
2134
2208*
2238*
2518
2521*
2524
2723*
2798*
2813*
2823*
2866*
3063*
3085*
3108*
3119*
3127*
3147*
3176*
3278
3368*
3496*
3573*
3580*
3605*
3741
3828*
3851*
3879*
4039
4052*
4089*
4166
4179*
4189*
4312*
4388*
4395*
4472*
4515*
4576*
4979
Date: Sat Dec 2 13:27:08 2017
User: ix
Message:picked some of the lowest hanging fruit:
824
1212
2813
4472
4515
is there anyway free@last could reduce the list to winnable but unwon? games with large number of attempts that turn out winnable might pique certain peoples interest.
Date: Sun Dec 3 12:50:52 2017
User: CubicSprock
Message:Most of them are winnable...there are only 73 total unwinnables in 8x3 - 7...so likely 8-14 impossibles in the 1st 5000.
Here is my highlight win so far (took 3 tries), didn't seem nearly as bad as the number of plays indicate.
Game #: 8x3 4979
Game stats: 172/1/0.58%
Difficulty: 7
Elapsed: 1:45
Date: Sun Dec 3 13:59:09 2017
User: TNmountainman
Message:.....Although I see now that it's supposed to be for first tries only. I guess use your discretion.
Date: Sun Dec 3 17:08:00 2017
User: ix
Message:that is beyond cuperb, its absolutely sprocktacular
Date: Sun Dec 3 20:57:31 2017
User: FlyingApple
Message:Most of them are winnable...there are only 73 total unwinnables in 8x3 - 7...so likely 8-14 impossibles in the 1st 5000.
Here is my highlight win so far (took 3 tries), didn't seem nearly as bad as the number of plays indicate.
Game #: 8x3 4979
Game stats: 172/1/0.58%
Difficulty: 7
Elapsed: 1:45
How do you know how many are winnable?
Date: Sun Dec 3 21:59:10 2017
User: CubicSprock
Message:When developing the winnables variant free@last developed a program and ran it against all the games in many of the variants on this site. This program was unable to solve 73 of the 8x3 level 7 games. I've linked to a document with those totals below.
This 73 is really an upper limit, and the number is likely slightly less as there are likely a handful of games that are possible that the program couldn't solve. In 8x3 level 5, for example, the program couldn't solve 23 games, but only 17 are actually (presumed) impossible, meaning it failed on 6 winnable games.
Link: Unwon Count
Date: Mon Dec 4 01:38:56 2017
User: Mastermind
Message:For anyone out there wondering how the hell did CS solve the dead game 4979 here are his initial moves.
7h under 8c
Kd and Qc to freecells
2h under 3s
6h to freecell
9c under 10d
6s under 7h
5h under 6s
Qd under Kc
Kd and Qc to column 2
10h and 9c to freecells
3,4,5 and 6h to home
7h 6s and 5d under 8s
8c under 9d
9c under 10d
4d to freecell
8d under 9c
7c under 8d
4d under 5c
8h to freecell
Date: Mon Dec 4 02:35:42 2017
User: Katya
Message:I did two of the ones that hadn't been tried very often.
2521 is now 1/14. It took me two tries. BTW all higher difficulty levels above 7 for this one have already been solved. I also did them and they were all pretty easy.
4312 is also now 1/14. It also took 2 or 3 tries.
Date: Mon Dec 4 13:37:39 2017
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:Thank you to all who are participating. I'm pleasantly surprised at how many of you took an interest. I'll continue to brush up my FreeCell skills by working on the remaining deals that haven't been attempted.
ix, thank you for the link. That'll make finding the missing deals a lot easier.
Date: Mon Dec 4 20:47:29 2017
User: Katya
Message:Actually we did a group effort like this this years ago for some other variants - I think before any one had programmed a solver.
Date: Tue Dec 5 11:35:55 2017
User: Bobby_Jindal
Message:I did it for 8x3 Level 6 a few years ago.
Date: Tue Dec 12 01:34:21 2017
User: Katya
Message:4166 is now 1/34. It took 2 tries.
Date: Tue Dec 12 02:05:59 2017
User: ix
Message:2723 is the only remaining winnable game, i checked the remaining 11 with a solver. cubics estimate of 8-14 impossible games was right on. congrats on 4166, i had lost it 16 times. my highlight win was this one:
Game #: 8x3 66
Game stats: 160/1/0.63%
Difficulty: 7
Elapsed: 9:51
Date: Tue Dec 12 02:15:47 2017
User: ix
Message:probably a dozen tries on that one
Date: Tue Dec 12 21:43:09 2017
User: CubicSprock
Message:got 2723.
so ix did you know #66 was winnable when you solved it? Just curious...impressive either way getting a 0.%er.
Date: Tue Dec 12 22:06:35 2017
User: ix
Message:thank you for 2723! yes i knew 66 was solvable, i crunched all the remaining (at the time) games to know which ones were not a waste of time. interesting thing, all the games i typed into text files (i'm "between jobs" and a project was just the ticket) to check them had a king as the first card dealt. all of them.
Date: Tue Dec 12 22:42:51 2017
User: CubicSprock
Message:yeah whatever Denny's level algorithm it seems to really impact the 1st few cards the most. Checked about 10 before finding a queen to start...and most times the king was of hearts.
Date: Wed Dec 13 17:40:17 2017
User: ix
Message:i bet every level 7 deal starts with a king up to at least 5000 and then somewhere after that becomes consistent queens for a bit.
Date: Fri Dec 15 10:58:52 2017
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:Thank you to whoëver is working on the deals that I'm leaving unsolved, as I go through the unplayed deals. At least 9 unsolved deals have been solved since I logged off yesterday afternoon. Good job!
Date: Fri Dec 15 11:16:05 2017
User: byronsmoot
Message:#LXVI on the first try ... IV minutes, and XLIV seconds ... so take that IX ... :)
Date: Fri Dec 15 15:42:24 2017
User: ElGuapo
Message:I did a half dozen or so yesterday, and I'm sure others did as well.
Date: Thu Jan 25 17:05:27 2018
User: ix
Message:5262 is 0 for 95, it's 25.58 percent as an 8x4, i'm going to give it a shot which simply means it will be 0 for 96. any freecell chuck norris types wanna give it a shot?
Date: Thu Jan 25 22:07:18 2018
User: CubicSprock
Message:A lot of people give up just before they're about to make it.
Date: Mon Jan 29 14:30:55 2018
User: ix
Message:thanks for knocking back 5262, sprock, its now the lowest win percent game for 8x3-7.
i've been working on the 6000-7000 games but they are getting a bit too chewy for me. here is a list of the remaining games, their win % as an 8x4 and the number of attempts as an 8x3. all games have been checked to be winnable and only 6991 is unsolvable.
game # % as 8x4 attempts
6332 19 45
6409 58 13
6423 43 7
6599 28 7
6612 60 8
6665 43 5
6675 30 5
6685 65 6
6700 70 3
6807 58 3
6930 67 4
6980 48 6
6991 49 5
Link: http://freecell.net/f/c/view_games.html?;8x3,7,p,0
Date: Mon Jan 29 14:34:40 2018
User: ix
Message:i didn't realize 5262 had been played so many times after you solved it, its now 1/181 for a win percent of .55
Date: Tue Jan 30 20:51:26 2018
User: Kaos
Message:6991 sure looks like it could be solvable...
Date: Tue Jan 30 21:55:46 2018
User: Kaos
Message:The solution to these two is lost to me:
6332
6599
Of the others, 6665 was a challenge.
Date: Wed Jan 31 11:09:47 2018
User: free@last
Message:15 losses before...
Game #: 8x3 6332
Game stats: 75/1/1.33%
Difficulty: 7
Elapsed: 18:07
Date: Thu Feb 1 02:39:56 2018
User: ix
Message:finally got 6599, all winnable games up to 7000 have now been solved. i've looked ahead a little, i'm not done checking 7000-8000, i know 7307 is not solvable. believe it or not, 7680 *is* solvable. its been attempted 162 times and its win percent as an 8x4 is 8%. not a typo, 8%.
Date: Thu Feb 1 16:34:18 2018
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:Somebody got it, but it wasn't me.
Date: Thu Feb 1 17:48:23 2018
User: TitanicTony
Message:Yep! Game 8x3 #7680/7 is now 1/204 = 0.49%.
And, it wasn't me either!
Date: Thu Feb 1 21:07:26 2018
User: ix
Message:i'll give you a hint: he won it first try in 1:40
the only unsolvable games in the 7000-8000 range are 7307 and 7337
Date: Fri Feb 2 02:43:43 2018
User: TitanicTony
Message:Of course, CubicSprock!! I even checked his history, just to be sure.
Date: Fri Feb 2 09:01:01 2018
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:I've been going through the unplayed deals as fast as I can, but I can't keep up with you guys! Thanks to everyone that's been pitching in!
Date: Fri Feb 2 11:17:44 2018
User: free@last
Message:This is the 8x3-7 unwinnable list I long ago sent Denny. As I've said many times, some might be winnable but the solver, at that time, could not solve them.
320
784
877
2083
2087
2798
3063
3147
3573
3709
3741
3828
5645
5994
6599
6991
7307
7318
7337
7599
8496
8523
8738
9061
9115
9407
9693
10182
10297
10517
11218
11536
12364
13077
13118
13189
14007
14942
15350
15607
15779
16918
16945
17870
18212
18620
19010
19150
20045
20383
20528
20549
22393
22517
23050
24024
24385
24474
25815
26181
26809
26814
26924
27160
27902
27922
29669
29671
30147
30740
31175
31449
31495
Date: Fri Feb 2 14:22:24 2018
User: ix
Message:thanks, free, that will be very, very useful!!!
Date: Fri Feb 2 21:51:40 2018
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Colt wrote:
"I've been going through the unplayed deals as fast as I can, but I can't keep up with you guys! Thanks to everyone that's been pitching in!"
Whoa Colt - you need to get all of your aliases playing at the same time. Looks like there are about 100 un-played deals per 1000 from the 8000's on up. Maybe Denny should track who wins an 8x4 deal without using that 4th freecell.
Date: Sat Feb 3 06:49:05 2018
User: Mastermind
Message:#18764, not in free@last's list, is now 94/1.
Date: Sat Feb 3 21:02:18 2018
User: Mastermind
Message:#27952, 64/1.
Date: Mon Feb 5 13:11:58 2018
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:An anonymous helper has now taken the unplayed list past 8191. In addition to being a Mersenne prime, this marks the quarter-mark on unplayed deals. Thank you, once again.
Date: Thu Feb 15 01:42:06 2018
User: ix
Message:using free@last's list, i've picked out the few winnable games. here's a little more than the first half of the 8x3-7 unwinnable list:
320
784
877
2083
2087
2798
3063
3147
3573
3741
3828
5645
5994
6991
7307
7337
8523
8738
9061
9115
9407
10182
11218
11536
12364
13118
13189
14942
15607
15779
16918
Date: Fri Feb 16 13:20:21 2018
User: Colt_McCoy
Message:Somebody solved 7039. I couldn't even figure out where to start.
Date: Fri Feb 16 13:48:56 2018
User: ix
Message:i finally got it, not one of those games that has tons of options throughout, its actually kind of simple. clear column 4, you'll fill the freecells but you can then clear column 2 and it falls apart right away.
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