Subject: CBD Oil

Date: Mon Jun 25 17:33:31 2018
User: hotnurse
Message:
So, for the last month I have been using CBD oil twice a day, .5mg/ml, for sciatic neuropathy due to a car accident 50 yrs ago. I haven't noticed a bit of relief from the mod-severe nerve pain by using CBD. This CBD does not contain THC. Several months ago, for the same neuropathy, severe at the time, I smoked some mighty strong weed, just a couple of hits. Within 10 min the pain was completely gone. Makes me wonder if the THC is the magic ingredient. So, I am wondering if anyone has more info, or experience, medicinally of course, with CBD. I believe that CBD is great for particular conditions; seizures being one of the main ones. But for regular pain I'm not so sure. I had gotten my oil from an MD, non-prescription but good grade and not purchased on-line. Whatch think???

Date: Mon Jun 25 18:53:06 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
I know nothing. Nothing. -- Sgt Shultz But I've heard that the THC and CBD combo, such as you get from ordinary rec weed usage, is likely better medicinally than either one of them alone.

Date: Mon Jun 25 21:25:45 2018
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
But, you tend to gain weight from all the Cheetos.

Date: Tue Jun 26 09:20:53 2018
User: caharris
Message:
I have been using the salve as well as what we put into capsules to alleviate arthritis pain in fingers and back and works for me. Also, NuLeaf has a nasty liquid that we put into capsules and free shipping. Let me know if you need furrher info

Date: Tue Jun 26 16:56:52 2018
User: hotnurse
Message:
ca, the oil I have tastes like crap. They tried to disguise it with lemon flavor...not well, I might add. I'm *sure* the CBD works for many things, but for me it didn't make the dif that the real stuff did. Interp, lol. I don't like Cheetos but I'm sure I gained 2-3 lbs on my binges with Double Stuffed Oreos! I still can't understand WHY the CBD w/o THC isn't legal in all states!!!

Date: Tue Jun 26 17:07:53 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
This is SUCH a complex issue. I really hesitate to wade in. As I'm sure most know, cannabis contains hundreds of different compounds. CBD was initially developed, with the idea of using it as a non-psychoactive compound by an Israeli pharmaceutical company, Pharmos, altho they're not given much credit. Raphael Mechoulam was the key scientist in Israel who first (well, not really, but in this context) was keen on the tremendous potential of the non-psychoactive chemicals in cannabis. Pharmos had limited money, and had to make a guess or two about what situations to try and target with their clinical trials. The first big one (and only real one their slim financial capability would allow, as it turned out), they aimed at traumatic brain injuries. While early trials showed promise, the pivotal phase 3 trial didn't show statistical significance. But I digress...………..depending on how far back you want to go on the CBD story. Since you're a (hot)nurse, maybe you'll remember about right-and left-handed molecules. Pharmos had a THC molecule that was right-handed, instead of left-, and thus was not psychoactive. Unfortunately, that molecule has yet (as far as I know) to have clinical trials run on it. Imagine having the physical effects of THC, without the psychoactive ones (which are negative to some people and especially to the gov'ment). This is a much more complicated situation but I'll leave it at that. You also probably know that because cannabis growers have been (naturally) maximizing THC content for decades now, the CBD content has gone down in those plants (it's unsure why that happens, but it does). But lately, esp. in CA, some growers have adapted to the need and acceptance of CBD by growing some strains that have more CBD and less THC. And that's not even considering the differences between indica and sativa - which adds another level of complexity. I'll not get into the chemistry more here, as it's too esoteric (but see physiology below). But suffice it to say that in the future, it's almost certain that the complex chemistry of cannabis will be better understood, and compounds like dexanabinol, cannabinor, ajulemic acid, HU210, HU211, and other chemicals identified by Hebrew University (thus their names begin with "HU"), will take their place, likely in some combination, alongside other items in standard pharmacopeias. But none of that helps you for the moment. Clearly...…..THC has an effect on pain. But we truly don't know how much of the overall affect of smoking cannabis is due to the THC. Pure THC (and in this post I'm shortening delta-9-THC to just "THC" for simplicity, even tho there are actually several different THCs) actually isn't fun, according to patients who've had it as part of older clinical trials and medical experiments. We know that CBD ameliorates, to some extent, the effects of THC. They *almost* work opposite each other, altho technically that's not the correct way to think about it. Further...…...in addition to the well-known CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, it's becoming increasingly likely that there are other cannabinoid receptors in the CNS, or maybe even in endothelial or smooth-muscle cells. Fascinating stuff. And we just don't know much about how the various combinations of (burned or vaporized) different compounds in cannabis work with these receptors. There's likely some sort of "buffering" effect, which one could also say is sorta how THC and CBD work together. You may want to look into "Nabiximols"(sp?), which is a medicine that has some THC in it (don't know the rest). It's approved in some countries, but not this one (U.S.). You may want to check Canada. I *think* it's used for neuropathic pain. I'm pretty sure. I don't know what the cannabis laws are in Indiana (but I can guess!), but investigate plants in CA that have more CBD, relative to THC, or just do what you did, if it works, I guess. I think joey's 'advice' above is probably correct, if simplified. "Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food." -- Genesis 1:29 That's in reference to "food", but could one deduce it's for our health? Or that one should eat cannabis? Just wondering...….. And why do we even *have* cannabinoid receptors? (Loaded question, but there it is.) Good luck, hottie.

Date: Tue Jun 26 18:04:13 2018
User: hotnurse
Message:
Wow, you weren't above my head in understanding but waaaaay above my head in being educated on the topic. You have probably condensed volumes on the subject into a short, well thought out read. Thanks. I have been interested in the effects that ANY drug has on neuropathic pain for purely selfish purposes. Nerve pain research, to make it short, is an extremely difficult subject to tackle. Partly because we are all wired a big differently ...although basically the same. So some drugs work on some and not on others. Of course! I am hoping that because of the gazillions of veterans with traumatic brain injury and or limb trauma that pharma companies will be working around the clock (they probably already are) to produce an effective drug to alleviate nerve-related pain. The pain is beyond horrible; sometimes debilitating. With my problem in particular I have been on more drugs that Eli Lilly has to offer, and off of just as many. The only ones to work consistently are the opioids. Thanks to all those abusers out there they are getting almost impossible to get, even legitimately. Whatever the pharms come up with I will eat it, drink it, swallow it smoke it or stick it on my skin as long as it works. Thanks again TN for weighing in on a professional level.

Date: Wed Jun 27 02:33:31 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
You're very welcome. And yes, I did distill down - maybe too much; maybe not; I don't know. I short-cutted a couple of things, meaning intentionally being imprecise to make it shorter and easier to digest, but I don't think with deleterious affect. You allude to it (CBD) affecting different people differently. And we don't understand that, but it may come down to variability of receptors in different folks, or some other genetic determinant. It's well known that different folks can "tolerate" cannabis *very* differently - and that's part of the mystery (and danger) of designing studies. (And it's more than just a simple THC dosage issue.) What I thinks gonna happen is that CBD, and "medical marijuana" are slowly going to open up the research pathways, so that more real research can be done on the many other compounds of cannabis (and the synthetic analogues). And you're right that for now, opioids are (overall) the best pain relief solution for many. Yet an increasing number of patients are able to quit opioids with cannabis. Which is hilarious (not really, but you know what I mean) since marijuana is still a schedule I drug. (But I bet within 3-5 years it won't be.) Have you tried curcumin, either alone, with other analgesics, or by eating lots of Indian food? There's been quite a bit of research upholding some claims about that for neuropathy pain. I'll link one article below that you may want to dig into. There are hyperlinks within most of the 'points', which take you to the original research paper. I'm sure you've probably already sifted through PubMed, too. I have heard of some amazing anecdotal stories about curcumin, including at least one (as I recall) for neuropathy. Safe thing to try. Don't give up hope - and I know that's easier said than done.

Link: Studies on Curcumin For Neuropathy Pain

Date: Wed Jun 27 21:41:16 2018
User: hotnurse
Message:
Funny that you mentioned curcumin. My 41 yr old son suggested that several months ago. He, like you, reads a LOT and has been researching possible aides for my problem. And he loves to cook and create Indian and eastern foods with curcumin. Personally I don't like it but would learn to love it if it helped. Maybe transdermal? Luckily my Internal Med Dr. is very good to work with me and allow me a fair quantity of meds to get me by. In Indiana when you are prescribed an opoid, like Percoset, you have to sign a "contract" that you won't use any illegal drugs otherwise you void your contract (random urine checks every 3 months) and will not be allowed the one drug that helps...opoids! So THC is out of the question. Thanks again for your input and concern. Hope we get to meet again soon. Waynsboro, imho, is the perfect place for Cellstock cont. part ???

Date: Thu Jun 28 04:32:45 2018
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I might be willing to come to Waynsboro, depending on the timing!!

Date: Thu Jun 28 23:57:15 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
I know one thing. If we're all still here in 2024, there's a big ole total eclipse coming right over Indiana. That'd be perfect!

Date: Fri Jun 29 07:18:00 2018
User: hotnurse
Message:
Great idea. I will share our welding helmet and flashlights for those few dark moments. We watched the last one which was 93% here and it was awesome!