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Subject: What is the point of un-winables?

Date: Tue Nov 27 18:21:37 2018
User: Raymone-of-Bayonne
Message:
I play a lot of 13-0 winable and not. It just dawned on me, what is the point of un-winable games? 13-0, 12-0 and others are a crap shoot. Un-winable games are just a waste of time. To get a decent string you have to be lucky. Makes me wonder why all the un-winable games aren't culled out. Can someone enlighten me?

Date: Tue Nov 27 19:02:35 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
There is a mountain of historical data on this site, from the thousands who've played millions of games. Culling out the unwinnables would forever throw out the utility of that historical data set. Even tho you may not compare yourself to others who've toiled mightily to achieve, say, a 97% winning percentage in 9x2, or 7x4; others like to challenge themselves and others in such a fashion. Likewise, you might rather win 100 consecutive winnable 8x2 games (good luck!), instead of striving for maybe winning 90% of them. The point being, there's other ways than streak length to see how a player measures up, and to help evaluate difficulties of the various variants. This site has SOOOO much richness that doesn't depend on hitting unwinnable games. Bluntly...........we would be trashing millions of hours of efforts of those who've 'built' this data set.

Date: Tue Nov 27 19:14:35 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Further...........discerning whether a game might be winnable or not adds yet another layer of intrigue, or difficulty, if you will. Yes, it may be annoying when playing 13x0 (which is why there's W13x0), but over time the winning percentage will reflect the skill level vs. others.

Date: Tue Nov 27 19:47:19 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
All we got... is that it's always been that way. That all of the win/loss records / streak records, accumulated over many years, include the results of those games and are therefore meaningless if they are eliminated - either replaced or just never dealt again. I suppose that why it was that way in the beginning is that it would have been a lot of trouble to do the elimination - it still would, for that matter, though less nowadays since today's computers have a hundred or more times the memory and processing power than those 20 years ago. Speaking for myself, if there were suddenly winnable versions of every variant, with separate stats for the winnables vs the originals, and I could choose to play either set, I would choose the originals and the rich historical record we have. In fact I have so chosen. I have yet to play my first winnable variant. Having said that, if the original set, and all the history of them, were deleted and we started fresh with all winnables, I would not go ape. I would be like ix! Not that it wouldn't be a slightly different game, psychologically. But only slightly.

Date: Tue Nov 27 20:29:17 2018
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
Unwinnable level the playing field among the bots and the really good players.

Date: Wed Nov 28 01:13:58 2018
User: Denny
Message:
That's exactly what the winnables are. Play those if streaks are your metric.

Date: Wed Nov 28 05:25:11 2018
User: Raymone-of-Bayonne
Message:
Good points! I didn't mean to eliminate the unwinables or their stats. I play both versions of 13-0 and I have to agree with TNmm about the intrigue. I never paid much attention to win percentage, only streaks. Now I see myself (and others) in a different light.

Date: Wed Nov 28 06:10:18 2018
User: Raymone-of-Bayonne
Message:
So, along the lines of suggestions, how about putting the personal win percentage on the congrats panel? I guess this is why I wasn't paying attention to it because it doesn't show up there. Regards, Ray

Date: Wed Nov 28 06:34:30 2018
User: Raymone-of-Bayonne
Message:
Denny, Somthing like this...

Date: Wed Nov 28 07:13:17 2018
User: roo
Message:
Also, you never know when an apparently unwinnable game (by the stats) turns out to be winnable. I just played 9x0 3434-5 and was surprised to see I was the first one to win it - now 1/18. I suspect if that game had been in a tournament it would have been won several times.

Date: Wed Nov 28 21:28:55 2018
User: Punster
Message:
That's one of the nice things about THIS site, you can play Winnables or regular, it's up to YOU. I do wish there was a 12X0 Winnable version, though.

Date: Thu Nov 29 00:02:03 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Everybody knows sarcasm doesn't work on kleptomaniacs. Because they take everything. Literally.

Date: Thu Nov 29 03:38:08 2018
User: outskirts
Message:
Nice one joeygray. I'm stealing it.

Date: Thu Nov 29 18:50:39 2018
User: Punster
Message:
I gotta "hand" it to you joeygray, that was a good one !!!

Date: Fri Dec 7 03:32:22 2018
User: Bonnard+me
Message:
Denny asked me , a long time ago why I played_ unwinnables:-- 10x1 most of the time. My philosophy is, life is full of unwindable problems and situations. Like driving a car and there is no windshield washer fluid in a dust storm..... In the game ,now, I find it strange when I come across an unwindable game, and I'm plodding along a in a nice comfy streak,-------- THERE IT IS ! -------And it amazes me that I clearly see that the game is a no go! The neat thing is I immediately recognize it is unplayable. Okay, how do I know so quickly. I smile and start over. And its OK! When I first learned to play the game, It bugged me when an un winnable showed up. I play ( freecell.net ) for pleasure, because it gets me out of impending depression ( by forcing my mind to concentrate on the game). Now ,as I get older , and have more age related concentration issues , the game forces me to me to be more logical, and to think more clearly. And life gets a little easier again. mr.bob, my deceased husband , played freecell.net and the "unwindable" games broke the stress of his extremely competitive nature.. He was too competitive, and he was seriously aware of it. We would play scrabble , open book (Any dictionary word), no time limit and I'd have to smile at 2 am and tell him , he would have to sleep with the loser, or winner , cause I was going to hit the hay! His competitive nature helped him in business , but it played havoc with his mind, and emotions. mr.bob loved freecell.net, and never lived long enough play Denny's 10x1 winnable. Unwinnables are good for some of us , the rest of us will learn to deal with them or play the winnable version. What is cool is we have the option.! Thanks Denny!

Date: Fri Dec 7 03:52:27 2018
User: Bonnard+me
Message:
hey joeygray! love the pun will steal it too. Steven King gave me a fun one. "you can take a horticulture but it won't make a lady out of her!

Date: Fri Dec 7 13:21:52 2018
User: outskirts
Message:
I made joeygray's comment into a Facebook post, which received 3 thumbs up from men, 2 from women, and 5 laughy faces all from women.

Link: Here it is

Date: Sat Dec 8 04:27:29 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
There's also a gaspy-face and a what is that, a steamed face? See if you can find out what she meant by that steamed face. Sometimes dis newfangled emojification is beyond me.

Date: Sat Dec 8 13:54:46 2018
User: outskirts
Message:
Thumb up - like Heart - love Laugh - haha Gasp - surprise Cry - sad Steamed - angry Pretty simple joeygray! Wink

Date: Sat Dec 8 14:27:39 2018
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:
Couldn't it be a woman (or man) having a steam-cleaning, pore-opening treatment? Or someone in a sauna?

Date: Sat Dec 8 15:02:32 2018
User: outskirts
Message:
If it pisses them off

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