Subject: old music
Date: Thu Apr 2 01:04:11 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yes, sad indeed. He was a lifetime force for at least two full generations of musicians (especially pianists of course). His influence was global, altho certainly N.O.-centric, and he was very deeply revered there, of course. I *think* my only experience with him was during Jazzfest 1993 - at Tipitina's no less - for their annual "piano night". On one stage, over the course of a few hours, Allen Toussaint, (the good Dr.) Mac Rebennack, and the always strong Marcia Ball from over in Austin (she's usually in N.O. for at least part of Jazzfest) joined Marsalis for the festivities.
The reverence of New Orleanians for Marsalis and Toussaint cannot be overstated. They rank above Rebennack, even, in the upper pantheon with Fats and Professor Longhair. I never got to see "Fess", as he passed away before I was properly indoctrinated to the N.O. sound and scene, but have heard multiple glowing first-person accounts of his performances. Marsalis, like Toussaint, had sort of an almost regal bearing onstage; one of those things that's hard to describe, but you know it when you see it. Glad you got to experience him, Buzz. Well, done, Ellis.
[It's possible I also saw him at another, earlier Jazzfest, in a conglommeration, but can't say for sure. Sometimes at those there was too much going on to even come close to absorbing it all. A good problem to have, as they say.]
Date: Fri Apr 3 11:01:36 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:And now Bill Withers has passed at 81, from heart complications.
Date: Fri Apr 3 13:32:19 2020
User: mrbuck
Message:Lean On Me should be an anthem for all of us during this crisis.
mrbuck
Date: Fri Apr 3 13:50:42 2020
User: Oded789
Message:I think his "Lovely Day" would do the job nicely too for those who are home with their loved ones.
Date: Fri Apr 3 14:07:44 2020
User: hotnurse
Message:Buck...but at least 6 ft away.
Date: Thu Sep 24 14:45:19 2020
User: Klepp
Message:Rhyming "flotsam" with "hot stuff" can't possibly ever been done since...
Eno's "Baby's on Fire"...nice guitar solo...
Link: OLD enough, circa '73
Date: Tue Oct 6 18:10:07 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Eddie Van Halen, 65, from cancer. Boy, he could rip it.
Date: Thu Oct 22 19:44:08 2020
User: Klepp
Message:British Trip-Hop...sadly underplayed.
Link: Sneaker Pimps
Date: Fri Oct 23 07:06:54 2020
User: differentDay
Message:& Roll On - just another classic from Becoming X
Anyone remember this earlier TH excursion?
Link: Numb [Dummy]
Date: Thu Oct 29 17:37:29 2020
User: Klepp
Message:HUGE THUMBS UP FOR PORTISHEAD AND SNEAKER PIMPS, differentDay.
I regularly jam them on the local public house's jukebox, rather regularly.
Date: Thu Oct 29 19:42:30 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:When I was growing up in the 70’s and early 80’s, as I was becoming aware of music, I thought of the sixties as a magical distant time. But certainly not as ancient as Chuck Berry and Elvis.
1996 is 24 years ago. To my young self, that’d be like 1956.
James
Date: Fri Oct 30 13:00:05 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yeah, it's all relative, of course, but I'm with Dr. Bombay - 1996 just ain't "old music". A semi-objective way to think about this is to try and pick a date of "the beginning". Of course that's impossible, but somewhere in the mid- to late-'50s (Elvis comes on the scene) would be a decent guess, if one ignores the 3-4 decades of seminal blues before then. (And jazz, too, altho that's less of a 'problem', at least for me.) Circa 1963 would also be a decent guess, with the Beatles, the good Dr.'s Troggs, Stones, etc. That ignores Elvis, Chuck Berry, etc., etc., etc. - but has merit in other ways. But '63-'64 is about as late as one could make even a slightly tenable argument (as "the beginning"). So 1996 would only be something like at best ~40% of that time period (counting to today). The question, tenuous as it is, is dividing that time period into something approaching eras - and we all know, kinda, what those would be. Certainly, the stuff pre-disco would be "old music". Would disco itself? Maybe. Probably. But one doesn't have to move forward much beyond that until it's no longer "old music". In the late '80s, you've got a bunch of (mostly vapid) pop, with MTV still holding influence. Maybe that's sort of a transition zone. Can Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, George Michael, et al, be considered old music? (Can they even be considered at all, as their 'worth' is questionable, at best.) Shortly after that, one gets into Madonna, etc. I can't really consider Madonna "old music"; maybe some can.
Obviously this is all just IMO - altho at least I think the framework to thinking about it is appropriate. IMO. LOL.
I can certainly understand james considering 1996 "like 1956", but then what would I (or someone older than myself) say about 1956? That it's like the genesis of Howlin' Wolf or Robert Johnson in the late '20s or ~1930? Point being............there's this canon of works that everyone, no matter their age, should be aware of - until "recently", that is, when things have gotten so fragmented that radio seems to not be the main way people learn of new music - and thus the spectrum is so broad to prevent, to a considerable extent, "canonization". But on the other hand...........we have BuzzClik's "Interesting New Music" thread, which certainly has some gems in it that I'd never otherwise be exposed to.
Yada, yada, yada................
Date: Fri Oct 30 14:20:18 2020
User: differentDay
Message:Perhaps different genres (with distinctive soundscape characteristics) can be considered to have later starting points, with music from those initial years being regarded as 'old' within that limited context?
Might one regard the origins of 'folk' music as being rooted in times when news was transmitted between communities by itinerant singers making the material more digestible (entertaining) via lyrical/musical delivery? How far back does that go? Does that make, for instance, "The Freewheelin..." a contemporary example of that genre, rather than 'old school' tradition pre-dating the electric 'heresy' of 'Bringing It All Back Home'?
I guess it's a matter of perspective - meanwhile, having touched upon the Dylan legacy, the track that has made the deepest impression upon me below:
Link: ...and life only
Date: Fri Oct 30 14:30:51 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Well, yes, you're right of course. Either earlier in this thread, or in the folk music thread, I posted stuff about ancient "folk music".
I was kinda/sorta addressing what's (very) generally called, in common parlance, "popular music" - further limited, in main, to "the West". One can draw time, geographic, or genre borders as one sees fit. That's why I emphasized the "IMO" above.
Date: Fri Oct 30 23:24:39 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:Okay, let me put it another way. Music from 1996 is old music.
James
Date: Sat Oct 31 16:25:11 2020
User: omnescient
Message:We're all right and wrong at this or indeed any other pointlessness in time. I hear/listen to music from 1996 - some of it 'sounds' old, some of it sounds (relatively) 'fresh'. That doesn't necessarily diminish its value, influence or meaning, or lack thereof.
I can also appreciate 'old' music, and recognise the influence it may have exerted on what followed, but I can't always listen to it for pure pleasure or stimulation, even when those I know insist upon its enduring qualities. I remember being encouraged to play Tom Waites, but he put out fires for me, though Leonard Cohen has never been a problem...
Link: Darker?
Date: Sat Oct 31 22:36:39 2020
User: outskirts
Message:St James Infirmary goes back like 3 centuries.., here is my fave, just edging out the one with Lily Tomlin and the all nurse band. Soooo appropriate for Halloween and loving the Nawlins setting. It's sped up and animated. Happy Halloween. And oh, I scrolled for ages at youtub this has been recorded bajillions times I never even found this one til i typed in king Britt. Can't say this isn't old.
Link: https://youtu.be/yDYGIeZDMyg
Date: Sun Nov 1 09:22:55 2020
User: differentDay
Message:And finally (for now), a piece of self-indulgence, but what can one expect from a 7 minute + opening track of a debut album?
This is old (per JBL's definition - thank you James).
Link: 1969 again...
Date: Sun Nov 1 11:09:04 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:"Bouree" is definitely old music. Note the absence of sound from the drums from about the 1:50 mark on for a bit during the bass solo. And then Ian's flute is quiet at 2:28, altho he's obviously playing it. Makes me wonder (!) if that possibly wasn't actually being performed 'live'. Indeed, as you specify, differentDay, it's the "original". LOL.
For bonus points, as if.........when did we quite recently see Ian Anderson (on American TV)?
Date: Sun Nov 1 18:48:17 2020
User: differentDay
Message:Does that depend upon the definition of 'performed' and 'live'? Studio performances are 'live' for those participating and/or present, even if the material is subsequently, or even simultaneously, engineered, mixed, passed through a mincer, garnished and packaged for consumption & preservation. Is CGA performed live? Is his Bach worthy of those bytes? I do like the way he flaunts his flute - breathing it into life*.
Re. Anderson: I assume you mean 'live' (whatever that means) on American television - I have no idea - thick as a brick. *I did not know until today that he suffers from COPD, and has been 'plagued' with bronchial issues for a large part of his life. Perhaps (i.e. definitely) not a surprise for a performing artist, especially one that I've just watched being interviewed whilst brandishing a cigarette like it was more an appendage than an accessory.
Date: Sun Nov 1 20:57:00 2020
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:I just let YouTube’s AI attempt to play my favorites and it opened up with The Punk and The Godfather by The Who. Damn, that still sounds better now than just about everything out there to me. Why is The Who so underrated? Will there ever be a drum and bass line this good again?
Date: Mon Nov 2 09:14:49 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:@ differentDay - Yes, it of course *does* depend on those definitions.............but.......I don't think that rendition would qualify under any circumstances, as they were clearly trying to imply that they were actually 'playing' those instruments as they were being filmed. Don't know what "CGA" means. "Computer-generated art"?
The Ian-Anderson-recently-on-American-tv reference was to the fact that there is a baseball pitcher for the Atlanta Braves who goes by that exact moniker, and he was indeed on tv during the recent playoffs, multiple times.
Date: Mon Nov 2 09:15:51 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:Date: Sun Nov 1 18:48:17 2020
User: differentDay
Message: "Does that depend upon the definition of 'performed' and 'live'? Studio performances are 'live' for those participating and/or present..."
I doubt that yours is a serious question, but "live" in the context of music recordings is not equivalent to "not dead." The difference between a live album and a studio album may be small for some recordings of some genres, but the process of recording and mixing a studio album is arduous and time consuming to the extreme.
But you knew that...
(Feel free to have the last word)
Date: Mon Nov 2 09:25:40 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Many years ago I said to my younger cousin "you know your husband (Ian Anderson) is a famous flute player". She goes "oh yeah, in the Jethro Tulls". Hehehe
Date: Mon Nov 2 13:00:39 2020
User: differentDay
Message:I try to be serious, but then listen to myself and decide I could spend my time more fruitfully being frivolous - playing Devil's apricot?
Ah, baseball; a statistician's dream - what more can I say?
CGA - a more restrictive definition: computer generated audio. Not a recognised term(?), but potentially useful in that it saved me a few dozen syllables of arid expression; also useless, in that it failed to save me explaining something that was intended to avoid an exposition. Art was close enough - a logical inference (is there any other kind?), and one that renders this (my) miasma of musical mouth-farting immaterial - fatuous last words...
However, I am interested to know how people here feel about the definition of an instrument in a musical context - where does instrumentation begin and end? For instance, does the manipulation of a computer program designed to generate musical content qualify as playing an instrument? Is vocal content the product of specialised instrumentation? Or is that just me being frivolous?
Must go, suffering from the Brad Pitts.
Date: Mon Nov 2 13:10:30 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:No - not a recognized/recognised term. If the connotation is to connect that to music.............then (in my book) that's quite a stretch - not being much of a fan of electronica or even heavy synthesizer usage. But not at all an impossible stretch.
Not to mention, the "saving of a few dozen syllables" ending up costing us both many more. But such is communication as part of life, no?
As to the definition of a musical instrument..........obviously that's in the ear and brain of the beholder. Almost anything works - or *can* work. The question is, can one put together some non-trivial number of sounds as to be pleasing to experience? I'll leave open your penultimate and pen-penultimate questions for others to ruminate on. I mean, certainly 'playing' a synthesizer would qualify?
Date: Mon Nov 2 13:14:03 2020
User: Klepp
Message:Makes me want to listen to Kraftwerk.
Date: Mon Nov 2 13:33:57 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:That Terry Riley entire album thing you posted above reminded me of Kraftwerk, Phillip Glass, and Tangerine Dream. Not really a fan of that stuff - altho on some level I can appreciate it.
Date: Mon Nov 2 14:40:47 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:Now comes the time on Sprockets when we dance.
Date: Mon Nov 2 14:53:11 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:One of my all-time favorite lines - which I've used multiple times on this site. (Altho often in pairing with something Cubic.) Bravo.
Date: Tue Nov 3 23:21:01 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Joni's first recorded song(s) has/have been found! 19 years old in '63
And of course the song was already old - HOTRS
She was playing a bass ukulele
I just think it's awesome
Link: https://youtu.be/4wWR3ZkyyGY
Date: Thu Nov 5 13:50:49 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:james, you may want to check this out. Neil just released yesterday a new (but recorded WAY back when) version of "Powderfinger". It's slower, and a bit different, but the sound quality is fantastic, and is a nice alternate take. His brilliance is evident in this version, too, not surprisingly.
I thought about including this in the other two threads in which it's been mentioned (one of which was the one about which sounds make you turn the volume up - which definitely still applies to this version), but since it wasn't discussed in depth, and it's a 'new' version, this setting seemed appropriate.
------------
From the relix web site:
"Neil Young has shared a previously unreleased version of “Powderfinger,” which comes off of his upcoming box set Archives Volume II: 1972-1976. The new archival collection is due out on Nov. 20, and it is already sold out.
“Powderfinger” was released on Young’s 1979 record Rust Never Sleeps. However, the newly released version was record [sic] in 1975 (according to the box set’s tracklist).
The new box set will include 50 previously unreleased versions of Young’s songs, this “Powderfinger” among them. Additionally, Archives Volume II will also include 12 songs that were never before released at all. Young has already released two of those 12: “Homefires” and “Come Along and Say You Will.”"
Link: Shelter me from the powder and the finger
Date: Fri Nov 6 08:50:06 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:It’s cool. Just to be clear, why me? I think I’m the only “James” around.
Did I mention at some point my Cowgirl in the Sand obsession or something?
James
Date: Fri Nov 6 11:05:26 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yes, in one of the threads in which I considered posting this, you did go on a bit about that, and about how at first you thought it too simple or boring(?) (paraphrasing), but later on came to appreciate it a great deal.
I listened to this "new" (1975) version of "Powderfinger" about 6 times yesterday. I can't say I like it better than the original................but wouldn't rule out coming to that belief later on. It's just a (slightly) different vibe - a slower, stretched-out build not present in the standard version. Can't really well describe the difference.
Ok, here's your "treatise" from Dec. 15, 2014, in the "Getting Better at Freecell" thread:
https://www.freecell.net/f/c/disctopic.html?code=12456&replies=98&start=0
Won't hyperlink it since there may be many here not interested in our particular discussion. One the other hand..........it was that thread in which we all discussed the 10,000-hour theory of excellence, so it had broad application.
Date: Sat Nov 28 03:00:42 2020
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:This is a song from 60s. It's sung by a Lebonase group called The Cedars.
I have known it by its cover actually. But I tracked it down to its original.
Link: FYI
Date: Mon Dec 7 14:12:06 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Just fyi....................Dylan is selling his whole catalogue. Not sure what import/impact this will have, other than maybe be prepared for more commercials with Dylan songs - which will likely be both good and bad.
At this point in his life...............it's hard to blame him. His iconic status has long, long, long ago been cemented.
Link: Dylan has sold out
Date: Mon Dec 7 16:25:33 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:In one of Jason Schwartzman's "Coconut Radio" (named for his record label) excursions on Sirius XMU, he announced that his favorite song of all time that had the word "baby" in the title was Syd Barrett's "Baby Lemonade." I drop this here as a tip o'the hat to Barrett and his fans.
Link: Syd Barrett, "Baby Lemonade"
Date: Tue Dec 29 05:50:45 2020
User: cellmate
Message:
i listened to a Frank Zappa radio doc over the holidays
i always seemed to be on the outside edge of getting in to whatever it is his music is
this 3 art documentary takes it from the musicians side... trying to give him what he was looking for
very enlightening
or... just watch him playing the bicycle https://youtu.be/QF0PYQ8IOL4
Link: Frank Zappa doc
Date: Thu Dec 31 22:56:46 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Sigh...... Two recent (very, very different) passings. Leslie West went away 2 days before Christmas. I almost posted something then, but feared many of you all might not be familiar with his work. But I'll post a link, which I'm sure will be educational for some here.
And I can personally report that the stack of Marshalls that he and Mountain utilized to push out untold numbers of decibels was a thing of frightful beauty(?) and aural magnificence. And yet he was more than just loud. He was a serious player. Underrated by many.
Link: In memory of Leslie West
Date: Thu Dec 31 23:18:50 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Much more personal to me, and someone who ultimately has been a much larger influence.......I just learned today of the passing of Tony Rice, on Christmas Day. I can't say I truly 'knew' him, but was around him many times and we have many common friends. If any here aren't steeped in his stylings, you've been missing out for a few decades. If you've heard of Doc Watson and Sam Bush, then you should know his stuff, too. One of the very, very best, and a true gentleman with genuine gravitas and an almost regal presence. Admired and deeply respected by all who knew him and/or his work.
I knew he wasn't doing too well, but am shocked that no one informed of this until today.
Link: RIP Tony Rice
Date: Thu Dec 31 23:22:16 2020
User: Kaos
Message:As the year winds down, I’m drawn to live Springsteen shows from 1978. For me, great songs and great performances.
Date: Fri Jan 1 06:16:33 2021
User: outskirts
Message:He was making coffee I heard
Post follow-up