Subject: ok, now just hand washing

Date: Sun Jan 26 16:49:35 2014
User: Denny
Message:
A common suggestion on the "how to prevent colds" threads was to wash hands frequently. But then I've read about how too much hand washing deprives your immune system of necessary "practice." What's the right amount? Again, bonus points for actual studies vs. personal experience, opinions, and things your grandma told you. Denny

Date: Sun Jan 26 16:56:16 2014
User: hotnurse
Message:
I've read and been told by people who know, that you don't really need antibacterial agents...just an emulsifier, friction and water for a period of about 3 min.

Date: Sun Jan 26 17:05:04 2014
User: Katya
Message:
Yes, hottie. I agree. The function of soap is generally considered not to be the antibacterial properties if any but the assistance it gives to the washing action. BTW the FDA is now examining and casting some doubt on the so called "antibacterial" soaps according to what's been in the news recently. Besides colds another thing that handwashing can help prevent is the Norovius that currently seems to be conquering the world. Adequate handwashing is essential to try to avoid these gastrointestinal type of illnesses. Also in public restrooms since everyone does not hand wash, it is a good idea to use your paper towel or whatever to turn the faucet off after washing and to open the restroom door. (if you notice many restrooms will have a wastebasket near the door to catch those towels).

Date: Sun Jan 26 17:31:35 2014
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Katya and hotnurse are pretty much right on, except that soap itself is antimicrobial in that it will lyse (destroy) the cell walls of many bacteria. I think there are exceptions but I don't remember the details. I think that some cells that have adhered themselves to skin via flagella or some other way are not quite as susceptible, but my memory is foggy on that. Since I'm not sure how quick Michael the Expert can respond, I'll use another source. And since Wiki apparently doesn't count, and I don't have enough time to research a 'true' source, I'll go with a pretty good response (though certainly not complete or exhaustive) in Yahoo! Answers.

Link: yes, soap kills bacteria, but not *all* of it

Date: Sun Jan 26 18:13:44 2014
User: ix
Message:
don't dogs get colds? how often does a dog get a cold? if not very often, perhaps we should emulate their sterility requirements.

Date: Sun Jan 26 18:20:35 2014
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
If only we could lick our butts.

Date: Sun Jan 26 18:51:29 2014
User: hotnurse
Message:
Kat, curious; what do you tell your patients about cold and flu prevention/treatment? Interp, are you saying that you *would*? Eeeeeeeeeeewwww.

Date: Sun Jan 26 20:57:00 2014
User: Katya
Message:
Hi, Hottie Encourage them to get flu shots - most (mainly geriatric age) do, though some consistently refuse. Explain that the flu shot protects against influenza (assuming that the prevailing strain is in the vaccine), not against all the other respiratory viruses out there. Also encourage Pneuomovax (the "pneumonia shot") in the relevant patients. (There is an increased risk of bacterial pneumonia while getting over the flu so the Pneumovax is particularly important in that context as well as a general health preservation measure). Regarding treatment - if they have influenza or I strongly suspect it (there is a rapid test available to check for it) do prescribe Tamiflu if they are within a couple days of onset of symptoms. Colds - recommend handwashing, covering mouth and nose when coughing, sneezing to protect others. Regarding treatment recommend or prescribe symptom control meds - eg for cough, fever. Many patients seem to expect antibiotics which I do not prescribe in most instances - explain to them that antibiotics do not act against viruses, only bacteria. Only in the case of suspected superinfection with bacteria would I prescribe antibiotics. Some patients - heavy smokers, COPD patients, are at more risk for these complications. Katya, MD

Date: Sun Jan 26 21:31:42 2014
User: Katya
Message:
I don't think that dogs get colds, actually, at least not the type we humans do. They don't have the requisite receptors for the viruses on the cells in their nasal passages. Given their dependence on their sense of smell colds would really be devastating for dogs. They have their own horrible viruses such as distemper. One thing that dogs can do is get infected or colonized with the strep bacteria that causes strep throat in humans. Some years ago when we had a strep throat bouncing around our house from one kid to another we finally had to treat every one at once including the dog. Any veterinarians on the site who can answer this question??

Date: Mon Jan 27 11:44:57 2014
User: WMD
Message:
Hand washing is only part of the story. You can contaminate your hands within seconds or minutes of washing them by touching something. The real trick is to keep your hands away from your face (eyes, nose, mouth. Think about it, how often does the average person touch their face?

Date: Mon Jan 27 13:32:44 2014
User: Denny
Message:
Isn't there some old joke about being taught not to pee on your hands? Denny

Date: Mon Jan 27 13:40:56 2014
User: MikeC
Message:
Something like ...Kid 1 ...Daddy taught me to wash my hands after I pee. Kid 2....My daddy taught me not to pee on my hands...

Date: Mon Jan 27 13:46:37 2014
User: hotnurse
Message:
It's not the actual pee you worry about. Unless you have a bladder infection pee is considered sterile. It's where that pee-part has been that's the problem.

Date: Mon Jan 27 20:12:34 2014
User: ponies
Message:
No one mentioned the obvious but hard to pull off in our culture... don't shake hands with people. Fist bump, elbow bump, forearm touch even cheek kissing preferable. I think cruise ships suggest forgoing open hand shakes, and I know Doctors without borders have a policy of not shaking hands. I'm getting better at it... open smile, "Nice to meet you" and then I present an elbow or something. ponies

Date: Tue Jan 28 11:50:29 2014
User: robwood42
Message:
colds and flu are airborne. Having clean hands doesn't help if you are breathing in viruses or bacteria that has just been sneezed or coughed into the air. Washing hands with soap allows the skin to maintain its natural bacterial flora. Overwashing especially with harsh soaps dries out the hands and opens them up to infection. The hands mainly transmit gastro-intestinal nasties and infections of the skin and eyes

Date: Tue Jan 28 17:01:42 2014
User: GTCharlie
Message:
Big thing I heard re the "antibacterial" soaps is that the fish are being affected/effected (never know which one to use) by disposal into streams and finally into the oceans. I am not convinced, but anyway I use soap and water and do not have problems associated with colds.

Date: Tue Jan 28 17:44:07 2014
User: condor
Message:
Don't forget to maintain a healthy immune system - a great preventative.

Date: Tue Jan 28 18:02:47 2014
User: The_Inquisitor
Message:
From now on I am not to use antibacterial soap when I wash my fish?

Date: Tue Jan 28 21:35:49 2014
User: wcwally
Message:
A question for you Denny. When you were a boy, were you allowed to play in the dirt, the neighborhood creek, or just be able to get dirty? If not, that is very likely why your immune system is weak and not much you can do now. If yes, I haven't a clue as to if washing your hands would help.

Date: Tue Jan 28 23:10:03 2014
User: gregre052
Message:
Virtually everything I read here I agree with. To me there seems to be one thing that should be considered, and it is a side effect to the actual question. The more you expose organisms to something that is harmful the better the chance that the organism will develop a way to minimize the harm done. The common cold would not be "Common" if it killed everyone who got it. Reducing the effectiveness of a treatment by giving it where it can do no good only speeds this up and helps nothing. The Good Part? Greg I do love the question about dogs. How did I not think of that?

Date: Wed Jan 29 11:06:54 2014
User: joeygray
Message:
To wcwally: does not stimulating the immune system enough 35 years ago really carry forward to today? I would have thought you could get back to par with a couple of dirt eating day care center supervising hospital visiting months.

Date: Wed Jan 29 11:38:42 2014
User: Denny
Message:
OK, I got that now I need to go eat dirt. So use hand sanitizer and eat dirt. Huh. Ok. Yes, I played in creeks. I swam in water I don't even water to think about. Denny

Date: Fri Jan 31 00:11:49 2014
User: Sammy
Message:
Had a dr give advice to blow your nose and wash your hands when leaving work. try to minimize antibacterial soap - think that's what "they" want you to avoid for your immune system. but all this will change in a year or two - just means moderation and common sense in all things.

Date: Sun Feb 2 19:19:58 2014
User: BigEX2C
Message:
you could always just get sick, there's really almost nothing you can do about it anyway. It is inevitable. Besides, the more you expose your immune system too, the stronger it gets. A cold isn't gonna kill you and really will leave you better for having it after.

Date: Mon Feb 3 12:25:09 2014
User: Jake64
Message:
I've been taking a couple of 'echinacea' capsules once a day for four years, and the number and severity of colds I've had is less than before.

Date: Tue Feb 4 10:10:30 2014
User: gramtoo
Message:
I wanted to support your handwashing theme and add to it as well. In my daughter's home with three active children, she has switched to using paper towels in the most public bathroom, the downstairs powder room. The use of paper towels cuts down substantially on the transfer of germs from one family member to the next. (It also gives one the opportunity to keep the bathroom looking fresh: I wipe down the sink with my used paper towel every time I wash my hands. :-)

Date: Tue Feb 4 16:02:10 2014
User: ejchap
Message:
I have to add this funny. A couple of years ago, I was watching a program about the worst jobs you could have. One guy was intyerviewing a guy who shoeed horse. The shoer said to the interviewer, " I have to wash my hands before I go to the bathroom, not after " edafan

Date: Tue Feb 4 16:32:30 2014
User: camd
Message:
Soap kills viruses and should be used to wash your hands. Many "hand sanitizers" contain alcohol, which is more likely to make your skin dry out and crack.