Subject: Never won winnables!

        Game:  W5x8 9921-5
Game stats:  4/1/25%/1648
  Player Elo:  2250.324 ▲ 0.243.

Gee, and golly gosh, another one already.

         Game:  6x4 4200-6
Game stats:  10/1/10%/2025
  Player Elo:  2252.860 ▲ 1.727.

Double golly gosh.

        Game:  6x4 21167-5
Game stats:  101/1/1%/2367;
  Player Elo:  2254.750 ▲ 5.362.

Gee, I thought this was one of my easier wwcx games today (no re-deals needed):

And, it was also my first level-10 game today.

         Game: W6x5 29339-10
Game stats: 8/1/12.5%/2145
  Player Elo: 2264.849 ▲ 2.726.

And just what is a "re-deal"?  Asking for a friend......

Tell your friend to try Google.  I saw recently that "smelly" had been dealt 16 winnable games in a row, and lost 6 of them.  If he wants to do better, he should try using cards, LOL!

Using cards isn't "doing better," it's just playing off site where no one sees your losses. Fools no one.

Gee, ElGuapo, it sure means better results, for me anyway (and probably others).  All good players do mental re-plays.  The cards just help me with my mental inadequacy.  Some players enjoy just playing (like trying to win in under a minute).  I particularly enjoy winning (and being in the top 10 on numerous lists).  Each to his/her own, imo...

Did someone speak of me?  Tony............I don't really play here to "do better" - if by that you mean winning all possible games so that I can brag about my exploits.  I'm not really trying to impress people - except with my odeur, of course.  (Ok - and also maybe my "fence-i-ness", I suppose.)  I'm here for fun, and perhaps to bring a little mirth-making to the site.  Oh, and of course...........unlike you.............I choose to respect the competitive efforts of others.  You should think about that sometime.  Respecting the efforts of others would be one major step towards rectifying your "conscience inadequacy".

I lucked out on a hunch. the force was with me.

"The cheat notes just help me with my mental inadequacy."

  ---  every lazy, poorly-prepared, or mentally inadequate student who ever cheated on tests

it worth taking some risks

Hey, sebcbien2, this must be one of our luckier days!

Game: 11x0 15641-5; .... Game stats: 41/1/2.4%/2146; ....Player Elo: 2350.877 ▲ 1.911.

I would feel lucky if I was first of SSC with 20 easy games ;-)

I already solved some nasty 11x0 games in the past

2023-05-08 16:03:14 | 11x0 | 28292-5   | 3 / 29 / 10.34 % - WON - 
2023-05-08 15:23:32 | 11x0 | 22561-5   | 1 / 29 / 3.45 % - WON - 

today I lost 6 of them but still +12 Elo

I won 5 of them at second attempt, so I can still improve. I think about playing more this variant anyway

"Luckier"?  "Luckier"?!!  LOL.  That game wore me out!!!!!

This is really a rotten one, the first move on this one is the mistake that lost them all. I did the same first go round. Leaving the 3C on that AS is the only way to win this puppy.

This one is very difficult, imo:

Game: 4x6 12507-5; ...... Game stats: 3/1/33.3%/2068; ...... Player Elo: 2277.580 ▲ 1.876.

"You know it's winnable.  You use a deck of cards.  You keep trying until you win it. What's so hard about that?

Now, if you won it using just your brain on the first try, that would be worthy of note.

Actually, if you won it on the first try using the deck of cards, that would also be worthy of note."

   --   firenze, 2023

Streakbuster. It looks inconspicuous, but has many dead ends and you only recognise the solution late during following the path and hoping for the best.

Unfortunately busted my streak: 

Game: 6x5 24503-7
Game stats: 3/1/33.3%/1717
Player Elo: 2283.566 ▲ 0.297.

Wow, now an even better one:

Game: 6x5 2378-8
Game stats: 52/1/1.9%/2229
Player Elo: 2290.352 ▲ 3.379.

Doesn't mean a thing.  Monkeys/Typewriters

Not sure how that applies, flatcrap. Are you insinuating that winning freecell games is totally random?

Obviously I can't speak for flatcrap, but my take is that he is referring to the cheating by Ellie2/TT by using infinite re-deals via external aids (cards + whatever notes, etc.).  ("With enough time......monkeys........typewriters........blah, blah, blah....")  I.E., any such wins are meaningless - which is accurate. 

NOT meaningless at all, imo.  It is something that nobody else has done, and I am very pleased, !

I find using cards VERY rewarding, and it gave me a new personal best Elo-score!

Players who refuse to use cards are just too impatient, imo, and are doomed to lose more often than necessary (Hop excepted).

"It is something that nobody else has done......"

No, we are aware that others have also cheated in the past - and possibly still do.

Stupid, nobody else has ever won that particular game.

flatcrap is *technically* wrong.  It actually does have some meaning -- it means that you have cheated someone else, at some point, of being to the first to legitimately win a tough game.  You've polluted that stat, along with so many others.

The mandatory pushback is coming, KoC, as it always does. Some of those defending the use of external aids are quite vehement; it makes me wonder if others have quietly joined the league of card users. 

>>>Date: Sun Oct 1 05:50:43 2023
>>>User: Ellie2
>>>Message:  "Players who refuse to use cards are just too impatient, imo, and are doomed to lose more often than necessary."

That is not universally true. Some of us buy into the concept that using cards provides an unfair advantage that is contrary to the spirit of the game. I'll explain further below: 

>>>Date: Sun Oct 1 05:50:43 2023
>>>User: Ellie2
>>>Message:  "NOT meaningless at all, imo.  It is something that nobody else has done, and I am very pleased.  I find using cards VERY rewarding, and it gave me a new personal best Elo-score!"

Tony, there is no question that you are a gifted player. I doubt that I could solve the very difficult games you win. And, I admire how open you are about the use of cards and how you trudge forward through the criticism with a (mostly) positive spirit. However, I do wish we could create a different category for users of external aids. Your use of cards changes the landscape of records by skewing times and (in my opinion) artificially reducing the number of losses associated with a given game. You must agree that your ELO would be significantly smaller if you didn't use cards. 

==============

It's very easy to dismiss the arguments that a few of us put forward about card use, but the only counter argument with even a modicum of validity is that banning the use of cards is unenforceable. 

Buzz, TT/E is not a gifted player.  He may not even be an average player.  We will never know.  He will play a game as many times as needed with his cards, but only count the win.  It can be assumed that he has never won the first time he used his cards.  Let's say that loss is counted, and it costs him 5 elo points. He has at least 100 posts in this thread alone.  Just with that, his elo would be 500 points lower.  Then subtract the points for the win and we are in the 1500 range for his elo.

Calling him a gifted player is flatcrap.

I thought this game was fairly easy; I got it on my first try:

Game: 10x1 31028-6
Game stats: 8/1/12.5%/1909
Player Elo: 2291.222 ▲ 0.805.

Using cards doesn't make me anywhere near a perfect played!  My Elo-graph shows lots of winnable losses.

TitanicTony doesn't use cards nearly as much as I do, but his overall win percentage is ~98.67%, while mine is only ~95.47%.

Or, to put it the other way around, he has only lost ~1.33% of his games, while I have lost ~4.53% of my games.

I guess that makes TitanicTony about 3 times better than me.  But, I'm getting there (albeit slowly)...

Very interesting but not surprising to me, Ellie❗ and great going on the 10x1❗

Shout out to Tony❗

Not sure how to interpret when someone talks about their alter ego in third person. I'm assuming it's just an attempted sleight of hand. However, I know exactly what it means when someone has selective outrage about such issues. 

"If you can't be consistent, then you can't be anything."  --- Tony Gaskins

(I guess being inconsistent is something...)

THANKS, outskirts, !

ConTROLL freaks R them 😆 

IYKWIM  😁 

PS: you're my namesake 😊❗

Don't view them as control freaks. You should think of it as a local Ministry of Truth. Also I'm pretty sure you're secretly using a card deck to cheat based on the comment above. 

"Some of those defending the use of external aids are quite vehement; it makes me wonder if others have quietly joined the league of card users. "

This is *NOT* an accusation............but I will point out that back when joey was attempting to have two separate listings for the SSC, those who took the vow not to cheat, and those who did not take that vow...............she initially took the vow, but then reversed, and removed herself from that category.  Just for what that's worth.  And I emphasize I am NOT accusing. 

It's the social castration that I object to. As has been explained numerous times. Go take a walk.

That ship has sailed, Ko'C. Seeing how cannot get even an official "please don't cheat," those using external aids essentially have the green light. So be it. 

As for the party in question (in your post of Tue Oct 3 13:45:44 2023), 180 degree turns are pretty much SOP. It would be annoying, but I thoroughly enjoy unintentional irony. 

For some reason..............I have a bit more faith in my fellow man (and woman) than you.  Perhaps unwarranted, but it's there.  I believe the very vast majority here *don't* cheat.  If only because the (main) point of playing is to challenge oneself.  Somehow trying to prove one is, in some perceived way, 'better' than others seems like a secondary goal, restricted to those who have baser (can more or less be translated as that "s" word) motivations.

I had my name on that list and took it off about the same time. My view was different. I felt ones honesty was being questioned unnecessarily. If one was to cheat, one would also lie about it. Someone using cards is no different than someone using a pencil on a crossword puzzle. I'll use a pencil on crosswords, but I won't use cards in this game.

>>Message: "Someone using cards is no different than someone using a pencil on a crossword puzzle." 

I think it's very different, redberet. Crossword puzzles, such as NY Times puzzle online, make no demands about filling out the puzzle in "ink". Players can change their answers easily and endlessly. However, the NYT makes a vivid distinction between those who accept hints from the software and those who do not; that is, the equivalent of using external aids. 

=============

Date: Tue Oct 3 14:28:53 2023
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message: "For some reason..............I have a bit more faith in my fellow man (and woman) than you.  Perhaps unwarranted, but it's there.  I believe the very vast majority here *don't* cheat.  If only because the (main) point of playing is to challenge oneself.  Somehow trying to prove one is, in some perceived way, 'better' than others seems like a secondary goal, restricted to those who have baser (can more or less be translated as that "s" word) motivations."

Playing with cards is a total nuisance. It takes ten times longer than on the software. I don't play variants that would even remotely justify cards. Considering that the majority of players here are 8x4 only, I doubt many of them would use cards either. 

My comment about card users (i.e., Tony is honest about it, but there may be others hiding in the weeds) was in part a response to the anger being dished out whenever this topic is broached. It just seems so odd that there are barriers in place to avoid "undo", playing offline, etc., and a lot of consternation when someone is manipulating ELO scores, but the use of cards is simply dismissed with the wave of a hand. 

Looping back to your comment about faith: Do I think that 99.9+% of the users don't use cards? Absolutely! Do I think that someone faced with blowing a streak or taking a hit to their ELO might break out a deck of cards? Yeah, some might do that. 

"Playing with cards is a total nuisance. It takes ten times longer than on the software."

I'm glad you got that off your chest. When did you stop?

Date: Tue Oct 3 17:46:10 2023
User: rbw--3
Message:  "I'm glad you got that off your chest. When did you stop?"

After one game. 

Quite some time ago, I was given a small gaming device that was dedicated to freecell (8x4). You had to move every card individually with no "automatic" moves that we take for granted here at freecell.net. Playing a single game would take about 15 to 20 minutes. It was pretty clunky, but it was okay on plane trips. 

I was asked to write a review for the device, and decided to compare it to playing the game with physical cards. So, I dealt a game of 8x4, and played. It was excruciating. Moving the cards around was miserable. So, my review for the device was that it was better than playing with a deck of cards but not as slick as playing online. 

I retired the device and was never again tempted to play with cards.