Subject: Never won winnables!
Date: Tue May 26 18:29:59 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:Winnable - how about a little rip-tide flag for games with a winning % below 20
so you can make sure your awake when you play them
Date: Wed May 27 12:52:21 2020
User: Oded789
Message:Tony - this thread is for every challenging game that hasn't been won before, not just from the winnable variants.
But my question was unnecessary, should have looked at Jack's recent stats myself.
Anyway, it does look like a hard game, but in the meantime I see that someone managed to win it, now 1/76.
Date: Wed May 27 21:06:15 2020
User: Oded789
Message:Game #: 4x10 6399-5
Game stats: 4/1/25.00%
Maybe there's a simpler, safer way to win it, but I got to seemingly lost position, and for the first time as I can recall, was able to use the renowned CS maneuver to extricate myself out of it.
Date: Thu May 28 01:33:12 2020
User: Mastermind
Message:Oded,that 10x1 is not all that hard;in the 76 earlier attempts,save once,the player(s),whosoever it could have been didn't study the layout properly. With very little effort lots of diamonds and spades can be sent home and after a few moves hearts go home on their own. Anyway byronsmoot caught on the trick and now the scoreline is 83/2.
Date: Thu May 28 03:44:08 2020
User: Oded789
Message:You're right, it's not hard, and I knew what's needed to be done, but automatically played an unnecessary opening move that prevented me from sending those spades home (the diamonds were never a problem).
Finally not making that move, game solved. Now 3/86.
Date: Thu May 28 12:33:23 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:Game #: 9x2 20753-8
Game stats now: 7/1/14.29%
I think it's quite tough - but only in streak play ;-)
Date: Sat May 30 16:46:23 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:Game #: 9x2 13841-10
Game stats: 12/1/8.33%
I still can't believe it's winnable
Date: Mon Jun 1 21:54:47 2020
User: Mastermind
Message:#28033 8x2 11. Very interesting game. Appeared in 6/1 Threat.
Date: Tue Jun 2 17:22:43 2020
User: Kaos
Message:Game: 7x3 3402-7
Plays: 17
Wins: 1
Percentage: 5.88
This is a classic tease game - the type of layout that I always associate with mabb. She won a similar deal to leapfrog me and WRAC in a long ago tournament and then WRAC finally figured out how she did it and posted the solution on the old hotel netcell.
Date: Tue Jun 2 17:38:50 2020
User: Kaos
Message:Game #: 9x2 13841-10. Now 27-2. Interesting game. Won on my 7th try.
Date: Tue Jun 2 17:49:35 2020
User: Kaos
Message:Yeah, and the 8x2 from the 1-June Threat is not that hard. One of those other games must have looked more winnable to WRAC and calicokid. It's now 25-3.
Date: Tue Jun 2 23:16:01 2020
User: Iammeonly
Message:#7×3 10
Date: Tue Jun 2 23:20:23 2020
User: Iammeonly
Message:Sleeve of my shirt pressed the submit button before the post was completed. Reference was to 30077.
Date: Wed Jun 3 20:16:02 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:Holy crap! This was NOT particularly hard. Who played this one??
You Win
Game #: 12x0 24714
Game stats: 34/1/2.94%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 9:40
James
Date: Thu Jun 4 01:59:40 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:I don't think I'd ever played it, but I did just now, and it took me 3 tries. I'd call it "tricky", but if you get started correctly, it falls away rather well.
I came across quite this devilish one earlier today: 12220-7 When I won it, that made it 2/11. Really quite fun. And then, of course, after mastering that one, laboriously, the very next game sunk me (which is likely unwinnable, altho I only gave it the one try).
As a fellow fan of 12x0, james, you should try it.
Date: Thu Jun 4 05:29:50 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:Apparently the game that "sunk" you was:.... Game: 12x0 26490-7;
Plays: 1;.... Wins: 0;.... Percentage: 0.00.
Maybe free@last could tell us if it is winnable, or not??
Date: Thu Jun 4 11:22:44 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yes, that's it, and as you can tell, I only spent 4+ minutes on it, so I concluded not much point in continuing to stare at it. I'd sorta rather NOT know that way if it's winnable or not. That would 'devolve' it into a "winnable", and thus artificially conflate the stats.
Date: Thu Jun 4 21:20:19 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:TN,
I played that challenging one of yours. I was gonna say “that is a tough one” but on my fourth try I saw an obvious beginning that I just ignored the first few times. Maybe that’s what makes it tricky, but it really was the obvious start. There was a way to get a free column that got me nowhere (my first two tries) but it was pretty complicated. The winning way got a free column in a few steps and was smooth sailing from there.
I can usually “prove” that a 12x0 is unwinnable (to myself) just by going through possibilities and eliminating all options. Unwinnable 12x0’s often have very few moves possible. Maybe I’ll check that other one, but without even looking it probably is unwinnable.
James
Date: Thu Jun 4 22:28:44 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:I don't remember the details exquisitely at this point, and maybe (likely?) we did it differently, but even when I got *two* columns open it looked like I couldn't find a way, but with patience and a *great* amount of long column-moving, I finally sorted it out. Those are kinda 'fun' to me.
Date: Thu Jun 4 22:43:53 2020
User: Oded789
Message:I've played much less than you two, but I can't recall a single zero freecell game in which two cleared columns weren't enough to win.
Date: Thu Jun 4 23:23:45 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:They exist. I've had several; quite a few, actually. Certainly in 11x0 and 10x0 they're not even rare (but uncommon). And for one that beats even those, check this one out. I think I've been in that position even in 12x0, too, but can't be certain.
If I recall correctly, someone (one of the big guns) told me it was winnable, but I don't think he actually played it out. I think he just couldn't believe it wasn't salvageable. But I'm far from sure about that. It was 8.5 years ago, after all. And I don't think I even tried it again. But during the game, I tried every way in the world to unravel it, but couldn't. Maybe I should borrow Tony's cards and try it that way.
Or maybe free@last has a way to put that position in his solver and see.
Link: lost 10x0 game with *3* open columns
Date: Fri Jun 5 00:15:47 2020
User: Oded789
Message:Maybe I should rephrase and say that I'd like to see a game where it's possible to clear two yet it's unwinnable.
Piling up is a cardinal sin; it just cost me dearly a few minutes ago in a 7x4 game, let alone it is dangerous in those zero freecell games.
I was going to ask which game it was, but I quick search revealed the answer, and CS (doesn't get much bigger than that, does it) seems to be right - it *is* winnable from there.
Link: Tough 10x0 with 3 open columns
Date: Fri Jun 5 02:40:20 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Well, like I said..........it had been 8.5 years since then - and obviously I realized it was winnable when I saw the 1/10 stats. But I wonder how CS, and now you, have proven it's solvable from that position? Cards? If so, then that doesn't preclude the possibility that the supermove restrictions made it unwinnable in Denny's format. I'm just throwing out that thought. I know I spent considerable time moving stuff around and around. It'd be interesting to know how much time I spent on that before giving up. And yes, of course piling up is deadly - but in something like 10x0, it's something that must be done sometimes. Thanks for digging that back up. Interesting.
But I'm pretty sure it's possible to clear two columns and yet the game is unwinnable. But don't quote me on that. This has been discussed a small number of times in the past. Others may have a better memory of that discussion than I would.
Date: Wed Jun 17 15:42:28 2020
User: Kaos
Message:Lost this game first try and figured the stats would be something like 36-4 but it came up 43-0. It looked winnable and turned out to be after a few more attempts:
Game #: 8x2 6102-5
Game stats: 46/1/2.17%
Elapsed: 3:32
Date: Wed Jun 17 18:47:16 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:Game #: 8x2 6102
Game stats: 47/2/4.26%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 2:18
Thanks for the posting ... I love to chase these games.
Date: Thu Jun 18 04:18:45 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:Gee, 1st try! Congratulations, I'm impressed!!
Date: Thu Jun 18 11:02:12 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:Thanks Titanic ... Sometimes you see the Iceberg ... sometimes you don't.
Date: Fri Jun 19 21:20:34 2020
User: Mastermind
Message:#10679 6×5 8 Latest Freakout.
Date: Sat Jun 20 08:40:31 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:I don't usually mention never played games here, but I thought this one was really very difficult:
Game #: 7x4 28031-8;..... Game stats: 1/1/100.00%;..... Streak: 34;..... Today: 2;..... Moves: 48/120.
Date: Sat Jun 20 09:19:29 2020
User: RottinJohn
Message:Game #: 4x8 2361
Game stats: 8/1/12.50%
Difficulty: 5
Moves: 69/164
First Try
Date: Sun Jun 21 23:00:36 2020
User: Oded789
Message:Game #: 8x2 6900
Game stats: 38/1/2.63%
Difficulty: 8
Elapsed: 2:21
Not that hard. A really stupid mistake prevented me getting it first try and win a mini-trad.
Date: Mon Jun 22 04:12:44 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yes, likely, because it's a mean game. Except no, because since it's a winnable, I wouldn't have been playing it........thus wouldn't have had a streak going.
Now 1/21. Took me 3 tries, altho I saw what had to be done on the second one.
Date: Mon Jun 22 04:32:15 2020
User: ix
Message:you could have been dealt that game while playing your standard trog version, the important thing is that it now has a win, reference tony's original post. thanks for getting it.
Date: Mon Jun 22 05:10:22 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Yes, of course you're correct, altho I've never heard it called *that* before. And you know I was just poking you as per usual. All in good fun.
And to be sure, if I'd encountered it in the "trog" version, I probably would have lost it (unless I had a significant streak, and thus would be playing very carefully). And then likely would not have tried it again, because with 18 (I think, when I tried it) previous losses, I might have assumed it was unbeatable, and moved on.
Date: Tue Jun 23 14:46:02 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:Dang - 10 x 1 game 13154 diff. 7
0 for 43
killed my little 24 game win streak
Date: Wed Jun 24 12:19:17 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:Hi Jack, thought "wrong threat" but turned out to be the right one.
Game #: 10x1 13154
Game stats: 52/1/1.92%
Difficulty: 7
Date: Wed Jun 24 12:25:01 2020
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:Just how hard does a 10x1 game need to be to get moved up to level 8?
Date: Wed Jun 24 13:14:22 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:Nice Job Strass
Date: Fri Jun 26 13:15:04 2020
User: Klepp
Message:20377-6 12X0...I lost once, but somebody else lost twice (two singles), so I count it for me...
Date: Tue Jun 30 17:48:22 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:10 x 1
diff. 5
# 23856
0 for 50
almost had it on 2nd try
headache on 3rd try
Date: Tue Jun 30 21:52:49 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:You Win
Game #: 10x1 23856
Game stats: 55/1/1.82%
Difficulty: 5
Elapsed: 3:15
There you go JackStraw ...
Date: Wed Jul 1 00:40:59 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:Really ? again ?
10 x 1
diff 6
# 30066
0 for 29
that's enough beating for one night
Date: Thu Jul 2 14:22:06 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:Really ? Again ? 1st game of the day
10 x 1
#20568
diff. 6
0 for 8
18 game streak killed
Date: Thu Jul 2 14:37:49 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:You Win
Game #: 10x1 20568
Game stats: 11/1/9.09%
Difficulty: 6
Elapsed: 2:36
There you go JackStraw ... clear column 9, build deep on column 7, clear column 4, and the rest is history. Sorry it broke your streak.
Game #30066 is a different story ... you are gonna need a Mastermind to figure that one out ... if winnable.
Date: Thu Jul 2 16:46:28 2020
User: Kaos
Message:10x1 30066-6. Seems like it has some options but I can't get any of them to work...
Date: Thu Jul 2 20:28:56 2020
User: WRAC
Message:Finally solved 30066-6, but I wasn't the first.
Games like this are why I'll never run up long streaks like Hop!
Date: Thu Jul 2 20:48:51 2020
User: Oded789
Message:You're responsible for nearly half of the 100 tries so far!
Date: Fri Jul 3 14:53:09 2020
User: Kaos
Message:Wow 142-2. Has to be one of the hardest 10x1's out there. I'd love a hint.
Date: Fri Jul 3 16:12:04 2020
User: Spud
Message:I was the other person to solve the game, took me 10 tries and about half an hour. The Kd goes on the freecell and after some precise moves column 6 is cleared, then some more precise moves clears column 2 whilst keeping the freecell. This is my partial solution, hopefully the notation makes sense: 10 40 20 18 2A 27 57 52 46 45 65 42 64 61 65 65 62 A6 36 34 23 93 29 25 and the game is definitely solvable from that position (although some care is still required, when replaying the game just now I messed it up from here).
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