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Subject: Never won winnables!


Date: Fri Jul 3 16:51:05 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
THANK YOU SPUD

Date: Fri Jul 3 17:07:52 2020
User: WRAC
Message:
Great job, Spud! I didn't follow all your steps, but from your description, it sounds like we solved it the same way. KD to the free cell, clear column 6. For me, the key was getting to the 7H, but as you say, it's still tricky after that. One of those games I would have thought was unwinnable if I didn't know there was a solution.

Date: Wed Jul 8 11:54:24 2020
User: Klepp
Message:
29261-5 9X1 first try first of 28......requires a rather particular shifting.

Date: Wed Jul 8 18:41:41 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
You Win. Game #: 8x3 31922-10; Game stats: 20/1/5.00%; Streak: 167; Today: 3; Moves: 53/160.

Date: Wed Jul 8 19:37:29 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Right there with you Klepp. Game #: 9x1 29261 Game stats: 29/2/6.90% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 2:48

Date: Thu Jul 9 00:20:01 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Today's winner dcn beat 8x3 4792-9 in 17 minutes, now 1/29.

Date: Thu Jul 9 11:51:07 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Game #: 1174 Game stats: 21/1/4.76% Difficulty: 5

Date: Thu Jul 9 12:21:50 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
7/9 12:10 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 0:44 Lost 7/9 12:10 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:43 Lost 7/9 12:08 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 4:20 Lost 7/9 12:04 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:40 Lost 7/9 12:02 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 5:03 Lost 7/9 11:57 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:07 Lost 7/9 11:55 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:46 Lost 7/9 11:54 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:30 Lost 7/9 11:50 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 4:00 Lost 7/9 11:45 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:15 Lost 7/9 11:44 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 4:32 Lost 7/9 11:33 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 6:31 Won 7/9 11:26 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 3:45 Lost 7/9 11:22 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:37 Lost 7/9 11:20 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 4:05 Lost 7/9 11:15 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:38 Lost 7/9 11:13 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 4:49 Lost 7/9 11:08 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 3:43 Lost 7/9 11:04 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 3:53 Lost 7/9 11:00 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:42 Lost 7/9 10:58 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:44 Lost 7/9 10:56 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 3:16 Lost 7/9 10:52 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 8:12 Lost 7/9 10:44 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:59 Lost 7/9 10:42 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:34 Lost 7/9 10:40 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 2:56 Lost 7/9 10:37 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 1:02 Lost 7/9 10:35 am 5x7 1174-5 Streak 21:01 Lost You lost it 16 times, then finally won it, AND THEN lost it 11 more times??? Congratulations.

Date: Thu Jul 9 12:29:42 2020
User: The_Interpreter
Message:
Could have won them all with a deck of cards and a notebook.

Date: Thu Jul 9 12:50:38 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
I just tried to figure out how I won it. It was a little strange that I could not find the right way again. Finally I found out that there were three different steps where my intuition could go wrong (and, of course, it went wrong)

Date: Thu Jul 9 16:25:30 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
First Try Game #: 5x7 1174 Game stats: 43/2/4.65% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 3:05

Date: Thu Jul 9 16:32:26 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
First Try Game #: 8x3 4792 Game stats: 30/2/6.67% Difficulty: 9 Elapsed: 5:59

Date: Sun Jul 12 13:59:41 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Game #: 11x0 7324 Game stats: 16/1/6.25% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 2:06 Streak: 2 Today: 2

Date: Tue Jul 14 01:54:18 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
5x7-5 #7958 Game stats: 4/1/25.00% First try. 'Challenging'.

Date: Tue Jul 14 21:06:41 2020
User: Klepp
Message:
14623 9X5-12 first of 8... Are there ANY impossible 9X5's? I do see over one hundred previously unbeaten 9X5-12's in the database...I took the one with 7 previous losses...others mostly 1 loss of 1 try...

Date: Tue Jul 14 21:21:08 2020
User: Klepp
Message:
18623-11 9X5 first of 8 I'm beginning to believe it's utterly impossible for any 9X5 to be unbeatable... Maybe I'll man up and try to take out the two remaining unbeaten 8X4's, in levels 11 and 12 respectively................................but then again, I'm no masochist.

Date: Tue Jul 14 22:06:48 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
No, there aren't. There's probably none at 9x4 either, and only two at 9x3 level 10. For some reason free's solver data is way off for some of the wider variants.

Date: Tue Jul 14 23:05:22 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Just (luckily) won a tournament thanks to solving (3rd try) 4x7 3351-3, now 1/17. With no clock ticking, I guess it's just moderate.

Date: Wed Jul 15 22:59:20 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
This one wasn't moderate and also turned out to be a tournament winner: Game: 12x0 11138-3 Plays: 10 Wins: 1 Percentage: 10.00 Took me more than 6 minutes. Quite pleased to solved that in a tournament.

Date: Thu Jul 16 00:12:14 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
This might be my most shocking victory: You Win Game #: 11x0 30643 Game stats: 34/1/2.94% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 3:32 Try it. It isn’t hard. Who played this one?? James

Date: Thu Jul 16 00:47:09 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
You're right, it isn't. Won it 1st try without much trouble. I can see some taking the wrong path there in a tournament, but 0/33 for such a game is hard to explain. Now, as a 12x0 expert, what do you think about the aforementioned level 3 game (now 1/26)?

Date: Thu Jul 16 09:32:25 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
Took me longer than it took you (probably always does). It had so many options..I’m not used to a 12x0 having so many moves you can do but still being tricky. James

Date: Fri Jul 17 16:04:59 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
I wasn't the first to win it (calico beat me to it by a couple of minutes, and was 5 times faster doing so) but it was like 0/20 until 20 minutes ago (now 3/30); anyway 10x1 2381-7 is quite challenging.

Date: Fri Jul 17 17:23:23 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
But managing to lose a 268/268 8x4 game on the very next tournament was a much more impressive achievement. Where's the "Never lost losables" thread?

Date: Sun Jul 19 13:57:18 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I made a complete mess out of this w6x5 game, ending my streak at 40! Two of the three losses are mine! Game #: 6x5 21222-9;.... Game stats: 4/1/25.00%;.... Moves: 54/166.

Date: Mon Jul 20 17:04:07 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Technically does not fit the category ... but I'll take it. Game #: 12x0 186 Game stats: 44/3/6.82% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 4:17 Streak: 10 Today: 10

Date: Thu Jul 23 11:51:42 2020
User: cellmate
Message:
Kind of a winding road to get this one (on 6th attempt) Game #: 12x0 25033 Game stats: 38/3/7.89% Difficulty: 5

Date: Thu Jul 23 12:24:38 2020
User: JackStraw
Message:
10 x 1 diff. 5 # 20655 1 for 80 Oded - I've done that once or twice

Date: Thu Jul 23 15:15:21 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Got it on the 4th try but really should have made it in 2. Once you realize the little finesse of the opening sequence it's easy, but foreseeing that on the 1st try takes some vision.

Date: Thu Jul 23 18:00:09 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Game #: 8x2 10428 Game stats: 57/1/1.75% Difficulty: 5

Date: Thu Jul 23 18:18:27 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Got it on the second try ... Drat !

Date: Thu Jul 23 18:50:54 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Game #: 8x2 8226 Game stats: 68/1/1.47% Difficulty: 5

Date: Thu Jul 23 19:07:22 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Strassenbeuge, you simply got both while streaking 8x2 and had a hunch both were winnable?

Date: Thu Jul 23 19:20:03 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Game #: 8x2 8226 Game stats: 69/2/2.90% Difficulty: 5 Elapsed: 3:33 First Try ... Yes!

Date: Fri Jul 24 02:45:12 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Oded: Almost 95 % of the deals are winnable, maybe even more. And there were a lot of openings. Byron: You are unbelievable. How can you solve all these hard deals with one or two trys? Great job.

Date: Fri Jul 24 13:28:14 2020
User: cellmate
Message:
Game #: 12x0 32573 Game stats: 5/1/20.00% Difficulty: 6 third try

Date: Fri Jul 24 14:05:15 2020
User: byronsmoot
Message:
Thanks strassenbeuge ... but nowhere near the unbelievable neighborhood ... so many other fantastic players playing freecell! On a good day, I rate myself somewhere between the 17th and the 27th best player currently playing : ]

Date: Mon Jul 27 08:30:53 2020
User: Spud
Message:
You Lose Game #: 8x2 21994 Game stats: 295/1/0.34% Difficulty: 10 This deal came up in a freakout a few weeks ago, it was 1/100 the first time I lost it and wasn't solved during the tournament. Whenever I fail to win a difficult solvable game in a tournament I always replay it afterwards until I win it. It might take me dozens of attempts but I always get there eventually - except this time. At least half the attempts on this one are by me and I have to admit defeat. There are a few lines of play which get close but no matter how I try to finesse the order of moves nothing quite works and I have run out of ideas. I am starting to wonder if there is a glitch in the game stats ... anyone fancy having a go?

Date: Mon Jul 27 22:37:59 2020
User: WRAC
Message:
I had great plans for a productive day... and then I saw the post above. A deal that stumped the mighty Spud? This HAD to be interesting. 83 attempts later, this game now been won twice in 397 tries. Was it worth a day of my life? Yeah, I guess so. I'd be happy to provide a hint if requested.

Link: 8x2 21994-10

Date: Tue Jul 28 02:34:57 2020
User: Uberman
Message:
Wow, WRAC, that's some impressive commitment to the cause right there! I've had my obligatory futile attempt, and for a moment at least it appeared I'd made a few correct moves only to ultimately lead nowhere. I get the impression that this is the type of game where that could happen in lots of different ways before making the breakthrough, so kudos to anyone with the patience to endure that. It'd be interesting to know who was the first to solve it during tournament play, however. Assuming it was done during a tournament, that is.

Date: Tue Jul 28 08:00:17 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Another 40 from me. 3/477 now

Date: Tue Jul 28 11:50:19 2020
User: Spud
Message:
So the glitch is in my brain and not the game stats! I am not one who likes to give up but after another 50 fruitless attempts today I think I need a hint. The problem is that all the lines look equally hopeless to me by now so knowing the opening few moves would be a big help so I would know where to concentrate my efforts. At one point today I thought I had it as I spotted a promising new idea, the first one in about 100 tries. But after 20 attempts to make it work it was clear it led nowhere.

Date: Tue Jul 28 12:58:29 2020
User: WRAC
Message:
Try sending as many spades home as you can!

Date: Tue Jul 28 17:21:08 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
WRAC, thats not a hint, thats the way to insanity ;-) There remains the question: how to free the spades? Spud, start to free colum 7. To solve the game still isn't easy, but it will cut off some dead ends.

Date: Wed Jul 29 09:27:11 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
One should never play two hard deals at the same time. My last post ist wrong: Start with column 8, not with column 7. To make it totally clear: Start with the column at the very right end. Sorry for this mess.

Date: Wed Jul 29 11:03:41 2020
User: Spud
Message:
Yes, that did confuse me a little, I don't think I've ever managed to clear column 7 at any point during my 200 attempts! Even with these hints I still can't get anywhere, must just be a complete blind spot. I think I'll leave it for a week or so and come back to it with fresher eyes (although I have tried that twice before...). Interesting that clearing the spades is the key. The deals I often have most difficulty with are those where the key is to send a lot of cards of one suit home.

Date: Wed Jul 29 23:45:22 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Game: 5x9 13163-12 Plays: 8 Wins: 1 Percentage: 12.50 Didn't even get to play that one in the tournament, but surprisingly didn't need to. Unwinnable 5x9 and even 5x10 do exist according to free's solver stats.

Date: Thu Jul 30 06:25:48 2020
User: strassenbeuge
Message:
Game #: 6x6 30701 Game stats: 20/1/5.00% Difficulty: 7 Woo-hoo! Solved in streak play.

Date: Fri Jul 31 01:51:21 2020
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:
Regarding 8x2-10, 29994 strassenbeuge's hint is very helpful. Here's something in between. If you give up you can take a look at the picture given below. Then you can use WRAC's hint.

Date: Sun Aug 2 08:39:15 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
This was a difficult game:.. You Win..... Game #: 9x2 15772-9;..... Game stats: 4/1/25.00%.


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