Subject: Competition 2016

Date: Tue Feb 9 03:26:54 2016
User: Darkosi
Message:
10 is a great number. I like to play games: 10x0, 9x1, 8x2, 7x3, 6x4, 5x5 and 4x6. My current numbers are 5, 9, 18, 14, 4, 2 and 1. And the product of this numbers is 90720. The competition of the year 2016 can be get the highest number.

Date: Tue Feb 9 08:00:14 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your "current numbers". For "best streak ranks", I have you as: T4, 1, T5, 6, T4, T9 and T2 (that's 10x0 ... 4x6). And, do you really mean "highest number", or lowest number? And, why "product", rather than sum?

Date: Tue Feb 9 09:09:08 2016
User: Darkosi
Message:
I mean current scores, not all times scores, so you mast have all the results at the same time, and product becouse it express all the results in one number. Becouse 3x4 is harder to make than 2x5 or 1x10. Product express the weight of harder steak.

Date: Tue Feb 9 11:04:27 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
OK, thanks for the clarification! How long do "current scores" last before they disappear? What is the definition of "at the same time" -- one day, or 2 weeks, or what? Probably I will not be participating -- I don't like 10-sum variants!

Date: Tue Feb 9 11:08:00 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
And, I now see that your "current numbers" mean current streak length, and not rank!

Date: Tue Feb 9 11:14:02 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Btw, I have never played 5x5, or 4x6, and, much as I like a competition, I almost certainly will not start now!

Date: Tue Feb 9 15:26:48 2016
User: kangaroo
Message:
I'm in. This is the best new idea I've seen for a long time.

Date: Wed Feb 10 06:30:03 2016
User: roo
Message:
My current score is 1,2,2,3,2,2,1, the product of which is 48. At least it's a start!

Date: Wed Feb 10 10:58:49 2016
User: myXXXXXnick
Message:
One player has 6-14-14-14-9-4-2, the product of which is 1,185,408.

Date: Wed Feb 10 11:54:23 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I think you are looking at the wrong data! It is "current streaks", and only Darkosi and kangaroo have a current streak in 4x6!

Date: Wed Feb 10 12:09:16 2016
User: myXXXXXnick
Message:
Current streaks are ethereal. Only all time streaks matter. "Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that the All Time Streak doesn't mean anything to you? Why, the All Time Streak is the only thing in the world worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the only thing that lasts."

Date: Wed Feb 10 13:28:56 2016
User: ix
Message:
good point though, how do you measure this? certainly not the current scores at the end of the year, so it would be the best you had during the year. i guess individuals would keep track and post as they beat the current best.

Date: Wed Feb 10 16:35:31 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
It is what the inventor says it is, imo!! If you want to "invent" something else (a different competition?), that's up to you!

Date: Wed Feb 10 17:01:53 2016
User: myXXXXXnick
Message:
Considered it invented. 1,185,408. “Mr. Watson, come here — I want to see you.”

Date: Thu Feb 11 02:35:28 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
I have 1,2,2,2,4,1,1 for a score of 32. I assume the idea here is to count current streaks even if they're more than two weeks old, right? I ask because they'll drop off the list called "Current," but will still appear when you click "scores" and then search under "Individual stats." To ix's question, though, I'm reading this as requiring all streaks to be current at the same time to count, not your best streak in each variant for the year.

Date: Thu Feb 11 02:51:45 2016
User: Darkosi
Message:
I don´t now the sistem and what is possible. So i just suggest, what I like. But it makes sence that the competition is alive. So there must be no old results. If results drop off the list called Current, than you mast play another game and they appear again. So you must confirm the result by playing another game. And here is the catch. You may not win and you lost the steak. For better result you mast prepare a strategy.

Date: Thu Feb 11 06:21:34 2016
User: kangaroo
Message:
Now 2,3,2,3,2,2,1 = 144. How gross!

Date: Thu Feb 11 09:10:53 2016
User: ix
Message:
i was mostly asking how it is to be implemented, documentation wise.

Date: Thu Feb 11 09:29:20 2016
User: myXXXXXnick
Message:
I am not sure this is a "competition" that can be truly documented. It seems like more of a personal endeavor that would defy any broad record keeping for the masses. “I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, 'Where's the self-help section?' She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.” ― George Carlin

Date: Thu Feb 11 09:38:35 2016
User: ix
Message:
if its honor system, i get it. but for example, is the current number to beat 1,185,408? someone might wonder where those numbers came from.

Date: Thu Feb 11 10:37:23 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Like all the other proposed scoring mechanisms and contests over the last several years, unless Denny chooses to implement such things into his database, it'll again be an on-your-own scoring system. Thankfully, someone (Tony the last couple of years) has stepped in to maintain the SSC and WWC, but no one has wanted to take on the gargantuan task of documenting, for example, "Most Prolific Streaker". Or remember the idiotic guy with his "armies"? Don't get me wrong.......I like very much the ideas and concepts of such things (well, most of them), but unless Denny (or someone else) somehow develops the capacity and system to do any of these things automatically, they will have a *very* hard time gaining traction. Would love to be wrong on this, but I don't see it happenin', at least long-term, any other way. But as a (weak?) corollary......I think we can just go ahead and put Darkosi (and Cubic Sprock, if he's interested) up at the top and let everyone else shoot for third........

Date: Thu Feb 11 11:07:03 2016
User: myXXXXXnick
Message:
“We all want to be the best at something. Trouble is, some people are only the best at being second best." ― Jarod Kintz

Date: Thu Feb 11 11:36:34 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I would like to suggest a "tiny" modification to the scoring system: all current zeros count as a "1". That way, I could participate without having to play all 7 of the 10-sum variants!!! Any objections? Btw, I just might be willing to tabulate the current 10-sum current streaks for a smallish number of players, say at the end of each calendar month!??

Date: Thu Feb 11 15:39:37 2016
User: deadwing
Message:
I always play until I lose - so my score will always be 0.

Date: Fri Feb 12 07:16:53 2016
User: kangaroo
Message:
2,3,3,4,2,2,1 = 288

Date: Sat Feb 13 04:49:40 2016
User: roo
Message:
Up to 432, with 6x4 going to 3 and having to replace my two 5x5s. This is getting hard.

Date: Sat Feb 13 10:55:44 2016
User: hotnurse
Message:
Yikes, you guys are making my brain hurt. But, have fun...it sounds interesting. Anything to keep this site fresh and proliferate. :)

Date: Sat Feb 13 19:23:03 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
2,4,4,2,2,2,1 = 256. Progress is slow with this contest!

Date: Sat Feb 13 20:02:36 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
2,4,4,6,2,2,1 = 768, a long way from Darkosi's 90k.

Date: Sun Feb 14 01:33:51 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
3,4,5,8,2,2,1 = 1,920

Date: Sun Feb 14 05:53:50 2016
User: roo
Message:
2,3,5,4,3,2,1 = 720

Date: Mon Feb 15 04:35:38 2016
User: roo
Message:
2,4,5,5,3,2,1 = 1200

Date: Mon Feb 15 11:32:10 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
3,4,6,8,3,2,1 = 3,456

Date: Mon Feb 15 14:09:20 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Sat Feb 13 18:23:03 2016 ElGuapo Message: 2,4,4,2,2,2,1 = 256. Progress is slow with this contest! ---- Sat Feb 13 19:02:36 2016 ElGuapo Message: 2,4,4,6,2,2,1 = 768, a long way from Darkosi's 90k. ---- Sun Feb 14 00:33:51 2016 ElGuapo Message: 3,4,5,8,2,2,1 = 1,920 ---- Mon Feb 15 10:32:10 2016 ElGuapo Message: 3,4,6,8,3,2,1 = 3,456 -------------------- A 13.5-fold increase in 48 hours is slow progress?!? (Just pullin' your chain. Good luck!)

Date: Mon Feb 15 16:27:37 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
Point taken! I guess it feels slow because progress comes in fits and spurts. Every time you lose a game you have to build that streak all over again, and in these 10-sum variants I lose a lot of games. 3,4,6,8,4,2,1 = 4,608

Date: Mon Feb 15 16:44:09 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
So basically just like streak play only losing negates your effort in seven different variants instead of just one. 3,5,7,8,5,2,1 = 8,400

Date: Mon Feb 15 17:03:46 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
No, not really. I see what you're saying, but all one has to do is win 1 game again in whatever variant the loss was in, and you're back in business. Which brings to mind a strategy: play the hardest 3 first (10x0, 5x5 and 4x6, I'm assuming), and then branch out from there. I.e., seems like establishing a "base" of the harder games makes progress easier. .....But what do I know, as I'm not planning on getting into this?

Date: Mon Feb 15 20:56:00 2016
User: ElGuapo
Message:
The downside to doing this on an ongoing basis is that even monthly scoring as TitanicTony tentatively offered just doesn't capture it. The scores are fleeting, with no way to look back and see what the high point was for a player before they either lost a streak or had it expire after two weeks of inactivity. Posting constant updates like this seems to be the only way, which is tiresome for the player and no doubt for anyone still following this thread too! 4,6,7,8,5,2,1 = 13,440

Date: Tue Feb 16 07:29:47 2016
User: roo
Message:
Going backwards, 3,2,5,5,3,2,1 = 900

Date: Tue Feb 16 07:33:31 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
My 1st idea for scoring was that all zeros should count as "1". I have a tiny refinement: count a "zero" as 0.9, for a 10% penality!? Also, merely expired streaks could be looked up and kept in any tabulation, which would be a little tedious, but maybe not too bad, if there weren't too many participants. I may try it at the end of February??

Date: Tue Feb 16 07:59:26 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Btw, I will likely not get involved, but my current streaks are: 0, 10, 3, 9, 0, 0, 0. +0.9 * 10 * 3 * 9* 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 177.15. Does anybody like "0.9" as a replacement for a zero??

Date: Tue Feb 16 09:14:43 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
When I first read your suggestion (counting a '0' as '1'), I thought it had a nice appeal, but "upon further review", I think not. For example, with your scores you list above, you're essentially not having to play the 4 hardest variants, and yet getting 65% of the credit for having won a game in each variant you haven't (.9 ^4). Doesn't really matter to me since I likely won't give it a try, but that seems like just too much "degree of difficulty" is being removed. Something small, like maybe .25 to .50, seems more fair, *but only on a maximum* of 1 variant. The whole point, as I understand Darkosi's intent, is to measure skill in games with high degrees of difficulty. But really, with enough effort, you should be able to win at least one game in each variant, playing as you do, one would think. But again, I have no dog in the hunt, so, better to hear from those other players who are taking up the challenge.

Date: Tue Feb 16 11:10:39 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
TN, I have no intention of ever playing 5x5, or 4x6! Unless someone offers a cash reward, ROFL!!

Date: Tue Feb 16 13:19:29 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
.....which is *exactly* my feeling about playing a 9x4, 10x3, etc! So now the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak! (Just needling you in good fun.....)

Date: Tue Feb 16 15:29:32 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I accept to be needled!

One advantage of the "0.9" is that it distinguishes between a true "1", and a "0".
The main advantage of the "0.9" is that it increases the number of "legal participants", imo!
Comments/suggestions anyone? Darkosi? ElGuapo?

Here is a sample of what a results table might look like:

Ra-	10x0	9x1	8x2	7x3	6x4	5x5	4x6
nks	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	9-10/1/16	16-17/1/16	Products	No. > 0	Players:
==	======	======	======	======	======	======	======	=======	======	==========
1	5	1	12	17	7	3	2	42840.0	7	Darkosi
2	4	6	7	8	5	2	1	13440.0	7	ElGuapo
3	3	0.9	10	5	5	2	0.9	1215.0	5	Mastermind
4	3	2	5	5	3	2	1	900.0	7	kangaroo
5	0.9	10	4	11	0.9	0.9	0.9	288.7	3	TitanicTony
6	1	3	4	3	1	1	1	36.0	7	WRAC
7	1	3	1	0.9	1	2	0.9	4.9	5	rws33315

Date: Tue Feb 16 15:32:38 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I will try again:

Ra-	10x0	9x1	8x2	7x3	6x4	5x5	4x6
nks	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	16/02/16	Products	No. > 0	Players:
==	======	======	======	======	======	======	======	=======	======	==========
1	5	1	12	17	7	3	2	42840.0	7	Darkosi
2	4	6	7	8	5	2	1	13440.0	7	ElGuapo
3	3	0.9	10	5	5	2	0.9	1215.0	5	Mastermind
4	3	2	5	5	3	2	1	900.0	7	kangaroo
5	0.9	10	4	11	0.9	0.9	0.9	288.7	3	TitanicTony
6	1	3	4	3	1	1	1	36.0	7	WRAC
7	1	3	1	0.9	1	2	0.9	4.9	5	rws33315

Date: Tue Feb 16 15:34:30 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
If I moved the dates into a column, then there could be multiple results per player!?

Date: Tue Feb 16 15:53:07 2016
User: kangaroo
Message:
I appreciate your work with this Tony. Perhaps have two divisions, those who have qualified for the "1st division" by winning a game in all seven variants and those yet to do so being in "2nd division". Your 0.9 for 0 is fine by me. The list would be sorted by division, then by total score. Players would move between divisions depending on whether they are active or resting.

Date: Tue Feb 16 17:03:07 2016
User: TitanicTony
Message:
A very good suggestion, imo! I can easily sort on "no. of variants > 0" (next to last column) in decending order, or I could have just 2 divisions (7, and <7). Btw, I copied all of the "current streak data" from the 10-sum variants, and it only came to 71 lines of data, of which the 7 players tabulated above accounted for 41 (more than half). I'm not sure that a player should be penalized for "resting". Having to play a game in each variant at least once every 2 weeks would be a strain, imo! But, then, maybe that is part of Darkosi's idea!?

Date: Wed Feb 17 02:10:34 2016
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I'm glad to hear that you like the idea of two divisions, Tony. Since that is the case, I'm sure you'll be on board to divide the WWC and SSC into two divisions each: one for those playing straight up; and one for those using "artificial aids". Make sense? I think it's quite analogous to using an un-earned multiplier to achieve a hoped-for result. (And believe it or not, even in this I'm just teasing you. Truly.)