Subject: NFL pick'em contest at FC

Date: Wed Sep 12 15:22:10 2018
User: poptart
Message:
Here are the rules: * pick three match-ups for the week, state the winner/loser. * those six teams are removed from choices for the NEXT TWO football weeks, regardless if you chose them for the win or for the loss. * you will get a +1 for each correct pick. * you will get a -1 for each incorrect pick. * a tie means 0, but the two teams are released to be chosen again. All picks must be completed BY 1:00 Eastern on Sunday (Sunday kick-off) unless he/she is picking a Thursday game, in which case all picks must be completed by kick-off Thursday. ** EXCEPTION: Week 15, picks are due before kickoff Saturday Dec. 15. Late-comers: Start at -2 points from LOWEST score. Playoffs: All teams are available to choose from. TBD: whether we pick for ALL match-ups or half. picking all could mean someone comes in last minute to scoops up the win. (depending on how good/awful our picks are! LOL) TN and Snowy are interested... anyone else?

Date: Thu Sep 13 08:40:17 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Just pointing out that a late-comer, with no rule against it as written, could wait 'til the last week, start with -2, and end up at a +1. Although unlikely, it's conceivable in a season with tons of 'upsets', that a competitor (such as myself, who doesn't play full attention at all to the NFL) could end up with a negative number, and thus be passed by a brand-new player on the last weekend of the regular season. I'm ok with that; just pointing it out.

Date: Thu Sep 13 09:21:48 2018
User: poptart
Message:
yup. but we stated we wanted to give them a fighting chance. starting at -6 (for instance) starting out doesn't really give them a fighting chance.

Date: Thu Sep 13 09:48:56 2018
User: poptart
Message:
hmm... okay, upon further thought, I am going to make it a bit more punitive to enter late... for one reason only: you have ALL games available to you upon entering the contest. -4 from LOWEST SCORE to start. Essentially, you'd be entering with two weeks of loses. (better, TN?)

Date: Thu Sep 13 09:56:07 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I think my idea from earlier, of -1 per week, is workable. Maybe up to some maximum, like -3 or -4. -4 from the lowest score is pretty punitive. If someone comes in only 1 week late, -4 seems way too much - to me, at least. Or maybe -2 the first week, then -1 per week, up to some maximum? But you're the boss!

Date: Fri Sep 14 12:45:57 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
What about if someone who's already in the contest, for whatever reason, doesn't submit picks in a given week? Would those be considered a 0, or a -1? One could get a -3 penalty just for forgetting (in my case), a world book-signing tour (Snowguy), or an extended vacay in the south of France (poptart), for examples.

Date: Sat Sep 15 08:39:20 2018
User: poptart
Message:
I'm up in Vermont with plans all day and into the evening. I'll leave it up to you and snowy to figure out. I'll be lucky if I get picks in before checking out of here tomorrow. Already 10 min late... I'm out!

Date: Sat Sep 15 09:40:34 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
N.O. over Cleveland Chargers over Bills Texas over Tennessee I choose to defer deciding about anyone missing a week. Let the Commissoner decide that as her time allows. Snowguy? But I'll say that situations like this, or late-comers, is why the 0,1,2,3 record-keeping seems simpler. But we'll figure it out.

Date: Sat Sep 15 23:43:42 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Chargers over Bills Rams over Cards Saints over Browns

Date: Sun Sep 16 04:38:27 2018
User: huffy
Message:
Redskins over Colts Chargers over Bills Saints over Browns

Date: Sun Sep 16 10:03:58 2018
User: poptart
Message:
PHI over TB SF over DET WAS over IND And hitting the happy highway home!

Date: Sun Sep 16 10:25:43 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I smell a loss or two in those picks. Bills and Browns (and Great Lakes teams in general) get no respect! Browns already surpassed all of last season (as Snowguy well knows!).

Date: Sun Sep 16 19:55:49 2018
User: poptart
Message:
the table c/p is a bit sloppy, but I think you can read it. winner loser actual winner Points Tnmountain - 2 pts NO CLE no 1 LAC BUF lac 1 HOU TEN ten 0 snowy - 3 pts LAC BUF lac 1 LAR ARI lar 1 NO CLE no 1 huffy - 2 pts WAS IND ind 0 LAC BUF lac 1 NO CLE no 1 pop - 1 pt PHI TB tb 0 SF DET sf 1 WAS IND ind 0 according to the rules stated above, w/o snowy weighing in so far, a newcomer starts with -1this week (2 off of me... but is not restricted with picks next week) snowy needs to bring the donuts tomorrow!

Date: Tue Sep 18 10:59:23 2018
User: poptart
Message:
Please LMK if there's an error winner loser pts wk pts cumulative pts TN NO CLE 1 LAC BUF 1 HOU TEN 0 2 2 TNs options: GB WAS IND PHI OAK MIA DEN BAL CIN CAR SF KC DAL SEA CHI ARI NE DET PIT TB SNOW LAC BUF 1 LAR ARI 1 NO CLE 1 3 3 SNOWs Options: GB WAS IND PHI OAK MIA DEN BAL CIN CAR NYG HOU TEN JAX SF KC DAL SEA NE DET PIT TB HUFFY WAS IND 0 LAC BUF 1 NO CLE 1 2 2 HUFFYs options: OAK MIA DEN BAL CIN CAR NYG HOU TEN JAX SF KC DAL SEA CHI ARI NE DET PIT TB POP PHI TB 0 SF DET 1 WAS IND 0 1 1 POPs options: NYJ CLE NO ATL BUF MIN OAK MIA DEN BAL CIN CAR NYG HOU TEN JAX LAC LAR DAL SEA CHI ARI

Date: Wed Sep 19 12:03:12 2018
User: huffy
Message:
Chiefs over 49 ers Jaguars over Titans Dolphins over Raiders

Date: Thu Sep 20 14:21:34 2018
User: poptart
Message:
Huffy, I have those picks in my pick'em contest. :) for this contest: MIN over BUF LAR over LAC CHI over ARI

Date: Thu Sep 20 15:59:37 2018
User: huffy
Message:
Poptart Thank you for taking the time to let us know what games we can pick in. I certainly appreciate it. Good luck with your tipping :-)

Date: Thu Sep 20 17:06:53 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Eagles beat Colts Pats beat Lions Chiefs beat Niners

Date: Sat Sep 22 10:49:33 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
KC over 49ers da Bearce over AZ Miami over Oakland

Date: Mon Sep 24 09:09:18 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
I don't see that anybody picked either the Bucs or the Steelers tonight. So, I guess the results are in...

Date: Mon Sep 24 14:49:51 2018
User: poptart
Message:
apologies for the formatting issues. As far as I know, this site doesn't do formatting... TN had a great week and is now tie with Snowy for overall 1st place. The rest of us had same results, leaving me in last place still. week # winner loser pts wk pts cumulative pts TN wk 2 NO CLE 1 LAC BUF 1 HOU TEN 0 2 2 TN wk 3 KC SF 1 CHI ARI 1 MIA OAK 1 3 5 TNs options: MIN LAR NYJ JAX CIN ATL DET DAL BAL PIT SNOW wk 2 LAC BUF 1 LAR ARI 1 NO CLE 1 3 3 SNOW wk 3 PHI IND 1 NE DET 0 KC SF 1 2 5 SNOWs Options: NYJ JAX CIN ATL TB CHI BAL PIT HUFFY wk 2 WAS IND 0 LAC BUF 1 NO CLE 1 2 2 HUFFY wk 3 KC SF 1 JAX TEN 0 MIA OAK 1 2 4 HUFFYs options: MIN LAR CIN ATL TB CHI DET DAL SEA ARI BAL PIT POP wk 2 PHI TB 0 SF DET 1 WAS IND 0 1 1 POP wk 3 MIN BUF 0 LAR LAC 1 CHI ARI 1 2 3 POPs options: NYJ JAX MIA NE CIN ATL CLE OAK NO NYG BAL PIT KC DEN

Date: Mon Sep 24 17:22:42 2018
User: joeygray
Message:

pop's options
NYJ	JAX
MIA	NE
CIN	ATL
CLE	OAK
NO	NYG
BAL	PIT
KC	DEN

(is the sort of formatting supported here with Denny's rendition of wikitables.)

Date: Mon Sep 24 22:13:34 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Wait. Did I pick the Pats? I meant the Steelers. I want a Mulligan here.

Date: Tue Sep 25 00:31:34 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Whew! You almost needed two mulligans.

Date: Tue Sep 25 08:47:22 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
LOL. So true. But were I still in charge of the contests, I would have gotten my Mullligan. "Steelers D" (What happened?)

Date: Tue Sep 25 10:41:23 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
The 'gaming' of the selection process can now be seen. For next week, pop has 7 choices, huffy has 6, I have 5, and Snowguy has only 4 (one being his team vs. the Ravens) (all assuming the Commissioner's ciphering is on target). For my own part......I have not taken the time to look ahead one iota, but I think this makes my idea really interesting. Picking 3 out of 4 games correctly isn't necessarily easy (altho him being the co-leader, he'll be fine, I'm sure). Picking 3 out of 6 or 7 is more manageable - maybe?

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:15:15 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Each week you will have 12 teams you can't pick. The worst case scenario is that none of those teams are playing each other, therefore eliminating 12 of the games. Once the bye weeks start, and there are only 13 or 14 games in that week, you may not even have 3 eligible games to play.

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:37:38 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Possibly - in a "worst-case scenario"; but of those 12 teams, some will be playing each other the following week, opening up another game or two - which is why the disparity I mentioned above. You know all that - just sayin'. The Commish can borrow one of Denny's former employer's supercomputers to work out the math of that potentiality. So...……….question before that issue arises...………...what IF? Let's say Snowguy was down to only 2 games to pick from. Does that penalize him because he didn't plan ahead? Does everyone else get penalized by only being able to pick 2? (Which as we know may not necessarily be a "penalty" if one is a poor picker.) This was part of the fun I was trying to inject by the idea I had. My purpose (being the original framer of that concept for you strict constitutionalists out there) was that such bottlenecks were a possibility, and one *should* look out for them ahead of time. Being one who quite some years ago quit being a big NFL fan, I'm likely not going to do that; I'll just take 'em as they come. But...…...what are the odds, with those 12 teams excluded, that at least one of them would be playing another one of those 12? You're almost certainly quicker on the stats, than I would be, joey, but I think those odds are pretty high. For each team of those 12, the odds of playing another one of "the twelve" would be 11/31, right, excluding previous games (which is NOT a trivial thing to dismiss; just going for simplicity)? So then you add up 12 of those.... Without carrying that through, really on just gut intuition...….I'm thinking it won't happen. I suspect, were one to try to actually 'go for' a worst-case scenario, as sort of a mathematical proof, that one could 'construct' such a case. I just think it would be very unlikely in this 'real' world.

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:40:03 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
I dunno, but if it's true that Snowy only has 4 to choose from this week, then it has already happened.

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:40:28 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
For clarity...………..in my last paragraph above, by "it won't happen", I meant there won't be a case where one contestant will be limited to less than 3 games to pick from.

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:45:26 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Nope, I'm wrong. This next week is the first of the bye weeks, but only two teams are off. I didn't know they did that.

Date: Tue Sep 25 11:47:44 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
We don't get down to 13 games in a week until week 11, and it only happens that once.

Date: Tue Sep 25 12:34:09 2018
User: huffy
Message:
My picks for this week are LA Rams over MIN ATL over CIN SEA over ARI As I'm consistent, which 2 will I get right?

Date: Tue Sep 25 12:40:58 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Ugh. It happens twice, in weeks 9 and 11. Obviously 15 game weeks are no prob. 14 game weeks are only a problem if all 12 of your blocked teams are playing (not bye) and in different games. TN, I agree that seems remote. We'll see what happens in 13 game weeks. Seems like it's fairly unlikely then too but you do have to get either two games playing each other or two teams in bye or one of each.

Date: Tue Sep 25 12:45:31 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Hey, just makes for a more juicy comp!

Date: Tue Sep 25 13:54:46 2018
User: poptart
Message:
I have more picks this week because I planned ahead... ;) the fact I can't pick for crap is another matter entirely! joeygray, how do I do the tables?? I have the info in Excel ATM.

Date: Tue Sep 25 14:36:39 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Well, I make the tables twice a week for the 11sum and 12sum rankings using a Visual Basic macro that I wrote for the purpose. VB is embedded in Excel, so you can surely do the same if you are a coder. If you want to do it by hand, then I would use notepad to open a text file, and make the table, and then twiddle it every week with the new info. Then you cut and paste the entire text file into the freecell discussion reply box. In that case, I direct you to the link below, which is a picture of such a text file that I made for Tony a few years ago.

Link: Example wikitable textfile

Date: Tue Sep 25 14:43:13 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Oh yeah, I should explain: - leftbrace-pipe opens a table - pipe-minus goes to a new table row - pipe-equals left justifies the cell (so you can't left justify the first column) - pipe moves to the next cell in the same row. - pipe-rightbrace closes the table You should make sure every row has the same number of cells, it looks neater that way.

Date: Tue Sep 25 16:44:22 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Clearly, I didn't plan ahead. I just picked some games. Yes, I see I only have four contests to choose three. Ouch. No Mulligan, huh? I would have given me the Mulligan. I will once again pick the ones I think mat win. Hopefully, the picks don't screw me in the next week.

Date: Tue Sep 25 17:43:23 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Ouch. This is tight. I will pick: Steelers over Ravens Falcons over Bengals Jags over Jets

Date: Thu Sep 27 13:27:15 2018
User: poptart
Message:

Winner	Loser
JAX	NYJ
PIT	BAL
KC	DEN

First try at this table thingy!

Date: Thu Sep 27 18:22:07 2018
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, with me only having 5 games to pick from it is indeed tough. Let me preface my picks by saying I *really* want to be edgy and walk on the wild side by picking the Lions to upset the Cowboys, and I *really* hate picking the Rams over Minn, as I like Minn just for being a 4-time bridesmaid, as I've noted in the past. ….In fact -- I've just changed my mind. I was gonna hate to be pulling for Rams over Vikes. So...….with all that said, I'll be more dangerous and go with Hotlanta to hold serve: Jax over Jets Pitt over Baltimore Atlanta over Cincy I could easily lose two (or more) of those. P.S. - just now noticed those are exactly Snowguy's picks. I did *not* refer to them or pay attention to them as I was whittling down my selections. Pity that, as our personal tie will apparently continue.

Date: Thu Sep 27 19:42:34 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
Good thing TN didn't copy me. That is a greased slide to perdition. If not soon, then definitely before very long. Anyhoo, we sink or swim together this week.

Date: Fri Sep 28 00:14:04 2018
User: joeygray
Message:

name

wnr

lsr

r

wnr

lsr

r

wnr

lsr

r

new

prv

total

1

Snowy

PIT

BAL

ATL

CIN

JAX

NYJ

5

2

TN

PIT

BAL

ATL

CIN

JAX

NYJ

5

3

huffy

4

4

pop

PIT

BAL

KC

DEN

JAX

NYJ

3

Date: Fri Sep 28 04:50:40 2018
User: huffy
Message:
Joey My tips are in back on 25th 12:34:09 I got in early because my first game was the Thursday game. :-)

Date: Fri Sep 28 11:21:19 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
Heh. I'm not actually in charge here. I was just trying to show a possible format. Hope it was helpful!

Date: Fri Sep 28 19:51:38 2018
User: Snowguy
Message:
It looks good. There appears to be a double post. If it checks out as such, I will delete one. No cost.

Date: Mon Oct 1 16:12:27 2018
User: poptart
Message:
I'm still in last place! even with a W tonight, I'll still only have 5 pts to y'all's 6 pts! tomorrow, I will post results and next week's options. And will try to do it all in a table format.

Date: Tue Oct 2 09:39:13 2018
User: poptart
Message:
I hope someone is around to delete that last debacle! trying again! I didn't realize I need a "-" for each new line.

TN	week #	winner	loser	pts	wk pts	cumulative pts
	wk 3	KC	SF	1
		CHI	ARI	1
		MIA	OAK	1	3	5
	wk 4	JAX	NYJ	1
		ATL	CIN	0
		PIT	BAL	0	1	6
	Options
		IND	NE
		TEN	BUF
		NYG	CAR
		GB	DET
		MIN	PHI
		LAR	SEA
		DAL	HOU
		WAS	NO

SNOW	week #	winner	loser	pts	wk pts	cumulative pts
	wk 3	PHI	IND	1
		NE	DET	0
		KC	SF	1	2	5
	wk 4	JAX	NYJ	1
		ATL	CIN	0
		PIT	BAL	0	1	6
	Options
		TEN	BUF
		NYG	CAR
		OAK	LAC
		LAR	SEA
		DAL	HOU
		WAS	NO

HUFFY	week #	winner	loser	pts	wk pts	cumulative pts
	wk 3	KC	SF	1
		JAX	TEN	0
		MIA	OAK	1	2	4
	wk 4	LAR	MIN	1
		ATL	CIN	0
		SEA	ARI	1	2	6
	Options
		IND	NE
		NYG	CAR
		BAL	CLE
		GB	DET
		DEN	NYJ
		DAL	HOU
		WAS	NO

POP	week #	winner	loser	pts	wk pts	cumulative pts
	wk 3	MIN	BUF	0
		LAR	LAC	1
		CHI	ARI	1	2	3
	wk 4	JAX	NYJ	1
		PIT	BAL	0
		KC	DEN	1	2	5
	Options
		IND	NE
		NYG	CAR
		MIA	CIN
		GB	DET
		DAL	HOU
		WAS	NO

Date: Tue Oct 2 10:01:49 2018
User: joeygray
Message:
I guess it got decided somewhere along the line that it was 0 for incorrect instead of -1 for incorrect, which makes late joining untenable. Not that I necessarily would have joined anyway.