Subject: bug in autoplay decision

Please forgive me if this is a previously submitted and well discussed item...

Problem: I had a spade7-heart6-spade5 combo in the upper left free cells. When I played the 7 on a diamond8 in the lower main stack, the software auto-played the heart6 on the ace pile instead of the spade7 I just moved down. This prohibited me from playing the spade5 on the heart6 as I intended. This could cost people a game.

Chrome Version 122.0.6261.129 64-bit

OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

Version 10.0.19045 Build 19045

taking a look. game is 5x5 15684-5

I'm sorry I did not take note of the game number. It could have been any one of 3 or 4 games I played and won this morning. Good for you if you know it was 5*5 15684-5. This "bug" in the autoplay has happened to me a number of times. This is just the first time that I took real notice of it.

We've had several reports of it on another thread. As I've said I never say "that can't happen" anymore related to software.

But the way autoplay works is it swoops in after any move and moves what is definitely no longer needed up to the aces.

It does not happen during the middle of a "pull down" sequence. So if it was going to steal a card, it would have done it when that card got moved up to the freecell, nothing to do with the pull down.

And if autoplay was being too aggressive, I think we've have heard about it in the last 20 years.

So until proven otherwise, what I think it happening is folks forget and move a card that is needed up to the aces (cuz you can always manually override). And then you go to move 'em down and go "oh crud I needed that".

This is gonna be really hard to track because I don't log individual moves. But what I'd say is watch for a case where auto play has grabbed a card you still need regardless of pull down. Because pull down happens atomically and then auto play kicks in after the whole sequence. If there's a bug in auto play it will have stolen the card long before you can think to do a pull down.

MrFixit aka Denny

Hello Denny,

There is indeed a bug in your software, which I've just demonstrated to LadyLove using the game 5x5 15684-5. With your level of expertise, it should be easy for you to replicate this issue. The bug occurred for me when I placed the 7 of Clubs on the HomeCell, which was on top of the 6 of Hearts. Subsequently, the 6 of Hearts automatically moved to Home. This is very surprising to me, as I've never encountered such a bug before. However, in this game, it definitely occurs and is easily reproducible. In my opinion, such a bug should be fixed with the highest priority.

Best regards,

SirPape

Seems to me that this "bug" will not put the game in an unwinnable position, but it causes the player to change their line of thought which is unhelpful.

Whether this particular game can still be won despite the bug is irrelevant. The crucial issue is that a card was automatically played that could have still been used for laying down (in this game, the 5 of Spades). This is unacceptable because, as Marco rightly notes, "This could cost people a game."

I meant "any" game, not just this one.

Hello SirPape and Denny,

Of course it is really important to remain respectful and positive on a discussion site so may I say, Thank you SirPape for taking up my cause and going to the trouble of recreating the erroneous autoplay.

To Denny I say, if you are responsible for maintaining this site, which I enjoy very much, thank you for your work.

But additionally, I would like to say that I am a software engineer as well and I know how elusive bugs can be. Let me assure you that I did not accidentally play the 6 of hearts on the aces and then say, "oh crud I needed that" and then write a discussion post about a bug to cover up my misplay.

So as a result of SirPape's fine work I hope you will consider that the situation has been "proven otherwise" and perhaps someone can take another look at the code?

PS Mr Roo, this bug has absolutely caused me to lose at least 2 games that I saw a path to win.

So pull down has nothing to do with auto play (auto-up). Auto-up will play anything it can up to the aces after every move so when the card got moved to the freecell, auto play would have stolen it immediately.  It doesn't know your next move is going to be auto pull down.  I'm trying to figure out a way to log moves so that I can distinguish between human play and auto play but it's gonna be tricky.

MrFixit aka Denny

I've never had a card that I placed in a free cell immediately stolen by auto up.

Strange. I have never come across this problem so far. Maybe because of my play style.

"The bug occurred for me when I placed the 7 of Clubs on the HomeCell, which was on top of the 6 of Hearts. Subsequently, the 6 of Hearts automatically moved to Home."

If you first move 7S to column 5, 6H and 5S would also be moved to that column. Then when you send 7C to Home, you should not have this problem.

The rules for autoplay should never have sent that card to the aces. And from SirPape's description which differs from Marco's, this has nothing to do with auto pull down.  Auto play will look to make sure both black 5s are up on the aces before playing the red 6 up, because the red 6 could still be needed. If auto play were stealing a card I still needed, I myself would have noticed that along with many others here.

It seems like hop is explaining how to keep a card "covered" so it won't get stolen, but you shouldn't have to do this as this would be a huge bug in autoplay. 

Oh actually reading this thread more carefully this has nothing to do with auto pull down. Sorry, got confused because that discussion is also happening right now. I thought this was another report of it.

But this seems to be questioning just pure autoplay.

OK. I think I have reduplicated SirPape's case and it works OK now. I moved 7C to home and it didn't send 6H to home.

Thanks to Hop for spotting the issue. I was calling auto down even when just moving a card to the aces. This causes other cards to get pulled to the aces. Fixed. And again I learn you can't say something is impossible with software.

Can't wait til everything is AI and we've got whimsical decisions being made by machines that no one fully understands.  Last thing we want is my fridge ordering me healthy food instead of the crap I really want.

MrFixit aka Denny

Hop, I have to ask, did you physically move the 7C home or did you use the "U" hotkey to do it. I have noticed sometimes that using the hotkey will send an extra card home that physically moving the card does not.

"did you physically move the 7C home or did you use the "U" hotkey to do it"

I don't use keys so it was a click-click.

I don't expect any problem. You think it would be a problem?

Thank you very much Mr. Fixit for the attention to my original post.