Subject: BRAGGING ! ! !

Date: Tue May 5 12:02:19 2020
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:
I use it for streaking 10x2 a lot. Contrary to what Oded says, it's not needed over and over again. If you start to play with "count for streak", it's already selected for subsequent games unless you change the variant. *not* selecting game number means random is selected. and if random is not selected you cannot select "count for streak".

Date: Tue May 5 12:08:47 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I read over all Denny's "instructions" as carefully as I could, and there is no indication, presumably because this is a minor point and likely anyone using this feature has been here long enough to understand it. So I'm just wondering if any old-timers here remember if it's changed at some point. No big deal at all; just wondering about my memory.

Date: Tue May 5 17:07:25 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Hop, maybe it's a cookie thing or something at my end, but I just played a 7x1 to make sure, and after checking both boxes, playing and losing as expected, "random" remains checked, but "count for streak" does not.

Date: Tue May 5 18:06:11 2020
User: joeygray
Message:
Nope, TN, it's always been that way. You always had to say both that you wanted random and if it wasn't greyed out that you wanted it to count for streak. And it's greyed out if you don't pick random OR if the level you pick is less than the level you'd currently be selected for. That's probably why he cleared that checkbox every time, so you couldn't win your 50th game on level 9 and still have it checked for the next one where you'd need level 10 to check it. Always isn't quite right, BTW. Early on there was no ability to select custom and have it count for streak at all. But for a long time now, anyway.

Date: Tue May 5 20:26:30 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Thanks, joey. I guess I "disremembered" (thanks again, dubya) it. I of course knew about the level/climate part.

Date: Wed May 6 00:31:19 2020
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:
Oded, "playing and losing as expected" I do not lose in between. Win a game then try another game. I don't think it's a cookie thing.

Date: Wed May 6 06:43:27 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
So maybe it's gotta do with the result? In 10x2 I wouldn't lose much also, but 7x1 is quite a different story, and after a loss as said the random is still checked, but I think you then have the game number you've just lost grayed out, as a subtle suggestion to replay it. Can you try a couple of 7x1 games in custom and (assuming you won't win both...) tell us what you get in terms of these boxes?

Date: Wed May 6 07:12:01 2020
User: HopDiriDiriDattiriDittiriDom
Message:
Oded, I don't want to try it. I believe you. Maybe you can try to win 2 10x2 games one after another through custom mode.

Date: Wed May 6 09:25:57 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
I just did with 11x2 and indeed you are correct when it comes to won games. Doesn't make much sense to make this feature result dependent. This box should remain checked once you checked it until you decide otherwise.

Date: Fri May 8 02:25:47 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Ok, I've been playing some more 7x1s. And I just won my second one! This one I had the boxes checked, so it's on the record. (But I won't bother to put it in the "Never Won Winnables" thread, since that was it's first play.) So........to clarify the statements above by Hop and Oded..............when you *lose* a custom game, and start another one, the "Random" box is already checked, and the "count for streak" box NOT checked (as we know). So you have to first un-check the "random" box, then, in order, *check that same box again*, then the "count for streak" box. The game number in the box that shows before you check "count for streak" is NOT the previously lost game -- UNLESS you've played it as "random". Confused yet?? I guess the most confusing thing now, after paying attention, is why does one need to first un-check, and then re-check the "random" box, before checking the "count for streak" box? I can see why random is the default after a loss, but I don't get why that one would need to be then re-checked BEFORE the "count for streak" box - *which negates the randomness* of the box one just re-checked! So now I'm pretty sure what happened on my other win, that didn't get officially recorded (except in my stats which I posted), is that I un-checked, then re-checked the random box, and assumed that that was sufficient to make it 'count'. So if you're following my logic (possibly), if one is requesting to call up a random game, shouldn't the default that goes with that be for it to count (for a streak)? Seems more logical to me, but also probably too trivial to change.

Date: Fri May 8 10:15:35 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
I'm with you. With "random" being checked and the sufficient level, would have made more sense if the other one was a "don't count for streak", with the default that it counts if eligible.

Date: Fri May 8 14:51:27 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I see you have persevered to also win a game of 7x1. Too bad Denny doesn't list cumulative stats of this one.

Date: Fri May 8 15:18:42 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
TN, see link below, maybe the first thread (or close to it) that I've opened here. It never ceases to amuse me reading about deadwing finding winnable games of 7x0, 6x1, 5x2, 4x3 (the first and last of these even at level 5! sadly not counting for streaks) and eventually even a 6x0 (level 1, which of course I had to try for myself, that was fun).

Link: 7x1 and 8x0 thread

Date: Fri May 8 15:36:56 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Yes, I actually remember that. And I believe (maybe in another thread) we went into more detail about that, and about (maybe?) how Bristol.City.Football.Club (or whatever/whoever) was able to get some stuff done that shouldn't have been available.

Date: Fri May 8 15:46:53 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Right, that one: https://www.freecell.net/f/c/disctopic.html?code=13908 There's also these: https://www.freecell.net/f/c/disctopic.html?code=3595 https://www.freecell.net/f/c/disctopic.html?code=9368 Yeah, I respectfully disagreed (at least partially) with you and CS regarding BCFC. Nothing about his actual results is that suspicious. Just found a way to play some odd stuff before it was widely(?) playable.

Date: Sun May 10 01:34:25 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
There also a winnable 5x1 game (27657-1), which I have a vague recollection of failing a few times and being the reason it's now 1/8. Tried to play the 4x2 version of the winnable 4x3 (24906-5), quite a few cards go but I'm pretty sure it's unfortunately unwinnable. No less than four 6x1 level 5 games have been found, I guess by deadwing. I've also gave a go at 5x1 32645-5, it comes *very* close to being winnable, but no. I did just win 5x2 29140-1, choosing it by the same method, but once more, the same game in 4x2 was too much to ask for.

Link: 6x1 level 5 game stats

Date: Sun May 10 23:54:28 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Well, I went into full deadwing mode, and on top of winning a bunch of 7-sum games (mostly 5x2, including 8 in level 5), won four 6-sum games (only two more have been won previously), including the first 4x2s ever (three of them). The first one was taken from the won 5x3 level 1 list, 10908-1, first won in 5x2, then in 4x2. The winnable 6x0 (26362-1) wasn't winnable at 5x1, but was at 4x2. And a nice surprise from a 7x0 game, 10436-1 which turned out to be a goldmine - not solvable in 6x0, but first solved in 6x1, then 5x1, then 4x2, and it wasn't that far off being solvable in 4x1. I'll keep searching for a 5-sum game that can be solved...

Date: Mon May 11 00:43:38 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
I think this belongs here because i am bragging/celebrating. I am FINALLY one of the top ten all time individuals in all the 12 sum games. 12x0 #1 (woohoo! My only one of these.) 11x1 tied for #2 10x2 tied for #9 (though the other player has a live streak so just barely) 9x3 #2 (I was #1 for a while but Hop ruined that) (live streak) 8x4 9th individual (15th place but with many repeats of the same two individuals) 7x5 #6 (live streak) 6x6 #8 (live streak) 5x7 tied for #9 (live streak) 4x8 tied for #2 (live streak) I suppose some of the “individuals” ahead of me in the other games might be repeats but whatever...made it! It was the 5x7’s that took forever. Oh...and Hop is ahead of me in almost everyone of those and is in the top ten in all (and without having to use the “individual” hedge). But still... James

Date: Mon May 11 01:00:02 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Very nice. Small correction/upgrade: you're 6th in 8x4 discounting repeats (and they should be discounted). Hop is 3rd.

Date: Mon May 11 01:12:09 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
I see Pudong/Qingpu/Ki/Le first, all the rgk’s as 2, Hop 3, Cocoloco 4, PhoebeDee 5, stringlug 6, cophomanch 7, which puts me at least at 8 (not sure who I counted as different a short time back). Which of those folks are repeats? James

Date: Mon May 11 01:44:14 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Cocoloco, PhoebeDee and Cophomanch (and also Michelangelo right after you) are the same person.

Date: Mon May 11 01:58:02 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
Oded, I see from Denny’s Who’s Who that Cocoloco, Cophomanch and Michelangelo are the same person. But how do you know “they” are PhoebeDee too? James

Date: Mon May 11 02:02:36 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
I think there was a reason for that in a partial "duplicates" list I've once made, but maybe it's just my mistake. So you're at the very least 7th.

Date: Mon May 11 05:12:52 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Those are both brag-worth accomplishments, Oded and james. Oded, we've all wondered about Denny's tweaks to get the various easier-than-10 climates. But wouldn't it be *really* interesting to know what all is involved in getting things easy enough to call it climate 1. Must be some serious shuffling. And remember, Pudong/Qingpu/etc. has admitted to using cards, so those numbers are invalid. One wonders if others might be as well.

Date: Mon May 11 05:35:04 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
BTW, meant to mention, I won another 7x1 earlier tonight for a total of 3. And just to be clear......I'm not playing any below climate 5.

Date: Mon May 11 05:35:35 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Gee TN, one doesn't "wonder", one KNOWS!!

Date: Mon May 11 05:57:56 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I meant of those at the top of the 8x4 list, which is what they were discussing.

Date: Mon May 11 08:58:48 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I am willing to believe (with NO proof whatsoever) that more than half of all players, in all 80 variants (7x1 & 8x0 excluded), in the top 100 for best streak, used cards, and/or notes, and/or help from a friend, and/or... (some other aid)!!

Date: Mon May 11 11:25:09 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Tony - perhaps for the polluted 8x4 list, this assumption could be correct. As for the others - I'd be stunned if more than 5% of the players did, and I hope that none at all. Really, once more, you cannot justify your actions by saying that "everybody does it". It is a lame excuse and is not the case. And I'm sure you could do fine only with your mind and no external aids, if you really tried.

Date: Mon May 11 11:30:13 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
In that vein............I'm quite surprised more SSC players haven't made "the pledge" to not cheat in that competition. I suspect some just don't want to "sign up", but one just wonders about that, too.....................

Date: Mon May 11 11:52:03 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
I'm not "making an excuse", I'm trying to promote better streaks through using cards/notes/friends!! BTW, I'm still #1 in 12x2, on 13,000, without using cards at all, ever, even once! Oded, you are correct, I should not have said "all 80 variants"!! It was stupid (thoughtless) of me! But, then, I am STUPID more and more often these days (nearly 81 yo)!.... Not even I use cards for the easy variants!

Date: Mon May 11 12:04:13 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Tony, it *is* an excuse. You've explained it many times; you've just not called it that. "I wasn't good enough" is why I didn't become a major league baseball player. It's the truth, but I could call it an excuse, too. "Better streaks" are worthless if they have no meaning. As many of us have pointed out repeatedly.......it's the equivalent of an unlimited number of un-dos. That's "against the spirit of the game" Denny said, and why he very pointedly made un-do unavailable when one is playing this site to compete. An unlimited number of un-dos (or limited only by how long one wants to spend on a game) is just the analog version of using a solver. So.............should free@last just use his solver to solve every game he plays, for the purpose of building "better streaks"?? Seems like that's what you're advocating. Moving the pitcher's mound back 5 or 10 meters would certainly promote better batting averages, right? Why don't we just do that, too? Allowing athletes to use whatever steroids, etc. that they desire would certainly promote bigger, longer, faster, etc., right? So why not?

Date: Mon May 11 12:06:39 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
Possibly because it might damage their health????

Date: Mon May 11 12:08:26 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
I think they just aren't aware or don't care enough, not that there are others who use external aids.

Date: Mon May 11 12:17:34 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
Tony, regarding the steroid use, yes that is correct. But if you lower the hurdles in athletics, lower the basket in basketball or widen the goal in soccer (football) you won't be damaging anyone's health and would get better results. Same as taking a shortcut in a marathon, which has actually been tried even in the Olympics (and thankfully caught). It's just not the same game, and not the way the creator of the game, or here the site, meant it to be played. Yes the mind and calculation abilities deteriorate somewhat over 80. That doesn't prevent people at this age to play competitive chess or bridge by the rules, doing the best they can *within those rules*. And so should you.

Date: Mon May 11 12:39:53 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Athletes who take steroids by and large know the dangers, and choose to do it anyway, because they chase a certain glory that makes that action more within reach. They've already maxed out (or nearly so) their bodies' 'natural' capabilities, and they've found themselves coming up second, or fourth, or whatever, against strong competition. The rewards can be extremely lucrative, especially in the major professional sports. They've decided to take that risk - even knowing that they are likely damaging their health. I almost wrote all this out, but thought it was pretty obvious, since we've discussed it before. And Tony, you didn't respond to my question about moving the pitcher's mound, which is joined by Oded's other examples. Should golf holes be made a half-meter wide? That would surely promote better scores. One could make literally endless other analogies. It's just bending, or breaking, the codified rules of the competitions. And you know..........a lot of great marathoners are getting some age on them, too. I think it's be great to give them a shorter course - maybe let them start at the 10 km mark. Or the 20 km mark, to make sure. Certainly that would promote better marathon times. And again, altho I hate to repeat myself, you've ruined some of the enjoyment of this site by others. Your actions diminish the competitive nature of the scores because you've corrupted the database. Future purveyors of the data (and discussions) here will FAR more likely remember that you cheated, rather than you *didn't* cheat in 12x2.

Date: Mon May 11 12:41:56 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
NOT a chance! I whole heartedly support "using tools" to improve results! BTW1, I can't imagine how this thread (which I started on 3 Dec 2008) got SO corrupted!? BTW2, your "re-trys" (mental) take a few minutes; mine take 20+ minutes! Maybe you lack patience? Although, you are incredibly patient, imo, when posting to this Discussion Board! BTW3, maybe you should try using cards for an hour, or two sometime (playing as "Anonymous" of course)! BTW4, I am allowed to be "set in my ways" (as long as I remain physically and mentally capable)!

Date: Mon May 11 12:44:04 2020
User: TitanicTony
Message:
BTW5, I thought I was replying to TN.

Date: Mon May 11 12:56:04 2020
User: The_Inquisitor
Message:
Tony, can you recommend a good freecell solver I can use as a "tool"?

Date: Mon May 11 12:56:55 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
LOL. That's (BTW1) pathetically funny, Tony. This thread was "corrupted" in the initial post, which you started to pat yourself on the back. But to say *the thread* "became corrupted" is quite the case of the pot calling the kettle black. It's actually been a useful and sometimes fun thread, with some remarkable achievements. Oh - the irony.......

Date: Mon May 11 12:58:14 2020
User: TitanicTonys_deckofcards
Message:
Thank you(!!!!), Mr. Inquisitor!!!! I think I'm due to retire!!!!

Date: Mon May 11 13:01:03 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
You're wholehearted support bending the rules so that they would fit your desires and needs, even though the creator of this site himself, as well as numerous other players, have repeated said that is not legitimate. If you had done so as anonymous, it's one thing, but to accumulate streaks that way opposing players who play fair is a different matter altogether. Anyone can take as much time as he wants, as long as he uses his mind, and only that. These are the rules. Not yours. The ones who other players play by.

Date: Mon May 11 13:02:48 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
Good lord. Can’t we get back to patting me on the back? Oded, too, if necessary. James

Date: Mon May 11 13:04:05 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, yes, we would like to. You guys are infinitely more deserving. .applaud

Date: Mon May 11 13:10:15 2020
User: Oded789
Message:
TN - regarding tweaks between levels, in theory I think it's not that complicated. Something like sum of cards distance to surface, when aces are more valuable than 2s and so on. Actually coding it is quite a bit harder, I guess.

Date: Sat Jul 18 12:36:44 2020
User: MikeC
Message:
Just broke 100000 wins in 12x3 !