Subject: Baseball
Date: Wed Sep 7 12:15:02 2022
User: Klepp
Message:The kid in me misses rolling through the turnstile as one would upon entering the ballpark...
Date: Sat Sep 10 05:49:58 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Sigh................. They continue to ruin the game.
Making the bases slightly bigger may be fairly trivial; putting a timer on pitchers is probably necessary, or nearly so; but disallowing the shift REALLY changes the game. Why penalize the defense because so many batters can't spray the ball to all fields? THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE GAME. This may, or may not be as bad as foisting the DH on every game. Probably not *quite* as bad - but I'm far from sure. Make the guys be "ballplayers", not some specialized plug-in item. What next - "artificial external aids"? Put in extra bases between 1st and 2nd and between 2nd and 3rd, to cut down on double plays? Move the fences in another 30 ft.? Completely take the seams off balls so they won't break? Four strikes for an out? Put a radar-enforced speed limit of 90 mph on pitches? How did these clowns who think a 12-8 game is better than a 2-1 game get control???
Link: more MLB rule changes for next year
Date: Sat Sep 10 06:23:05 2022
User: ix
Message:The league will also implement larger bases in 2023, increasing from 15 inches square to 18 inches square . . . the larger bases reduce the distance between bases by 4.5 inches
wow, i always thought the bases were on center of the corners of a 90 foot square, apparently not, kind of bothers me. i'm really not much of a baseball fan, but even to me the timer thing sucks.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_field
Date: Sat Sep 10 06:30:40 2022
User: ix
Message:so timer violations will result in balls or strikes, from a stats perspective that really sucks
Date: Sat Sep 10 11:31:41 2022
User: joeygray
Message:Thing is, it was the shift itself that was ruining the “game as we knew it”. And the shift’s cause is analytics, in two ways: 1) analytics convinced players the chance of homering is way more important than higher batting averages, and 2) analytics shows that shifting is the most effective opposition to that mindset: if they’re going to settle for homers or nothing anyway, might as well reduce that nothing as far as you can.
In other words, for all of baseball history up to analytics, the game was being played “wrong”. More entertaining, perhaps, for us fans, but wrong, for the purpose of maximizing your results. (More argument can be made as to whether a player maxing his own stats is the same as maximizing the team’s winning chances, but that seems to be true too.)
So you can’t have the entertaining game you used to have, unless you accept these rule changes that are purely for entertainment purposes, which is of course against the purist mindset.
Date: Sat Sep 10 13:15:26 2022
User: Klepp
Message:I think the diamond ought to be re-figured as a rhombus, with home plate's first to third angle being 105 degrees vice 90.
Date: Sat Sep 10 13:21:56 2022
User: ix
Message:i hope you carry around a little tape recorder, you are clearly an idea man
Date: Sat Sep 10 13:39:15 2022
User: Klepp
Message:Maybe the mound to home could be kept the same distance, but since the pitcher is a tad further from first, the baserunner's lead is a bit bigger, but, the catcher to second putout for a base stealer would be a click less...a bit quicker reaction time needed for SS and 2B at times, but also nice wider open gaps and corners for the spray hitters...
Date: Sat Sep 10 13:53:05 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:@ joey - of course I knew those points before posting, but the shift is nothing new - at all. See link for (some) deets on that. Included on that page is a very short interview where Ted talks about countering that shift by doing the obvious thing and going to the opposite field. Sabermetrics has codified the shift somewhat, and given license to teams to use it without being criticized - but it's not some innovative revolution.
FURTHER................making the infielders stay in the confines of the infield is a gross aberration of allowing the second baseman (at least and most commonly) to play out on the outfield grass. That's been done "as needed" for all of baseball history. Might as well make him play with one hand behind his back about two batters per game or so. Maybe they'll extend "the infield" somewhat; I doubt it.
And yes, I'm totally against the "entertainment-ization" of the game. At it's heart, it's still a SPORT, and should be respected as such. But, I know.........................gate receipts and TV money drive the train, and as the dumbing down of baseball 'fans' continues unabated, this trend will continue. I hope at some point, maybe far down the road...................the essential essence of the game can be restored - altho likely it won't be in my lifetime.
Link: Teddy Ballgame and "the shift"
Date: Sat Sep 10 15:25:31 2022
User: joeygray
Message:Thing is, the shift historically has been invoked against those hitters on the homer or bust trail. What’s different today is that’s nearly everybody. And if Ted were here today, he’d have analytics telling him what a losing proposition it is to do anything to force them out of the shift.
From a purist view I object to the pitch timing just as much, actually. Employing extra time historically had been only for high leverage situations, those of great moment. Analytics now says no, ALL situations are high leverage. Pitchers accede to that. So rules are invented to eliminate it.
Date: Sat Sep 10 15:28:48 2022
User: joeygray
Message:Stepping one more step beyond analytics, is the question of what entertainment ought to be. In other words why should we care that much who wins a game of baseball if it’s not for entertainment.
My late wife always wanted to know, why do you care who wins this game of baseball anyway. It was always a good question.
Date: Sat Sep 10 15:58:57 2022
User: Klepp
Message:joey: for most I suspect it has to do with a slight ego boost, and of course that's the common, desirable theme among the young...but for myself, now, as what one would call middle-aged, it has more I think to do with so very very much INVESTED EMOTION in (for me) an historically underachieving organization, of course for a Milwaukee Brewers fan with now decades piling now upon decades invested to do what that's never occurred? What the Giants did thrice sort of recently in a five year span, and hateful Yankees of course did four out of five times '96-'00...and of course what happened in Boston in '04 and Chicago in '16...I oddly feel a connection to a staunch, life-long Padres fan (swept out the WS in '84 and '98) of my age, though I know none...
Date: Sat Sep 10 18:10:28 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:As to the pitch timing..........I look at it like tennis serving. One could certainly (correctly) make the argument that with a tennis match at 2-2, 5-love in the first set, taking 3 more seconds to serve is less important than deuce at 5-5 in the final set. And yet a uniform time to serve gives a certain 'rhythm' to the action. I think it 'serves' (sorry) a purpose. While surely baseball isn't the same, I think the same argument has some merit - to provide that rhythm. A pitcher, with runners on base (representing many/most, but not all high-leverage situations), can always delay by throwing over to the base - or faking to second, if possible. That said........I don't disagree that there could/should be some leeway there. But I suspect pitchers will adjust fairly quickly (a year or less).
As to the "entertainment" question.............you all are looking at it from a fan's perspective - home-town fans - which is legitimate, as civic pride is "a thing". I'm looking at it from a former player's perspective (mostly) - as someone who grew up being a stathead (as much as was possible at that time). Back then ("when I was a boy"), essentially *everybody* who was male knew who was who, what each team was doing, what the standings were on a daily basis, who was a good bunter, who was a good hit-and-run guy, how the outfielders (and infielders, too, for that matter) played each batter differently, when is a pinch-hitter called for, etc., etc., etc. It was a sport because it was played like that. And *we* played ball most days for hours at a time. That's a *huge* part of viewing it as a sport, too - being able to identify (at some level) with what *those* guys were going thru. Most players weren't making enough to retire on each month or year. Heck, the vast majority of players had off-season jobs. Money was important, sure, but most guys played it *mostly* because that's just what they've done all their life and enjoyed the competition. And yes, "that was then and this is now"; I get that. And now I've lost one of my two life-long teams, the INDIANS. Cain't hardly "invest emotion" in the Guardians, can one? Altho yes, the Braves thankfully are ongoing.
OK, enough. And yes, it's nearing the point in life when I just have to accept that no, those kids are just NOT going to get off my lawn.
Date: Mon Sep 12 13:01:43 2022
User: BuzzClik
Message:Detroit, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Oakland have been eliminated from the playoffs. ESPN this morning announced that the Dodgers had clinched a spot, but that is not correct. Their magic number for at least a wildcard position is 2.
Date: Wed Sep 14 01:39:17 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Yeah, I think the better story is Aaron Judge. Pujols is just another ‘roid enhanced hitter (who seems to be more forgiven than others such as Bonds, Sosa, and McGuire). Meanwhile, Judge is living in the days when it’s far more difficult to get away with using PED’s. It’s fantastic that he shares a name with Henry Aaron. He’s on track to break both the Ruth and Maris records for home runs in one year without using PED’s.
Date: Wed Sep 14 07:46:56 2022
User: mrbuck
Message:There doesn't seem to be any evidence to support the Pujol's PED claims. At least
I couldn't find any.
mrbuck
Link: one article
Date: Wed Sep 14 08:41:22 2022
User: redberet
Message:This is from wiki Jack Clark page. I didn't much like him when he was in SF. He sure manned up like a trooper.
On October 4, 2013, Pujols filed a lawsuit against Clark. In response, on October 14, Clark challenged Pujols to both take polygraph tests to resolve who is telling the truth. However, on February 10, 2014, Clark apologized and retracted his accusations against Pujols, saying he had "no knowledge whatsoever" that Pujols ever used PEDs. "During a heated discussion on air, I misspoke", Clark said. In return, Pujols dropped the suit.
Date: Wed Sep 14 15:56:32 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Just my opinion. Of course, Lance Armstrong passed all his drug tests…
Date: Wed Sep 14 16:39:38 2022
User: mrbuck
Message:So did I.
mrbuck
Date: Wed Sep 14 16:48:15 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Once you get that submarine knuckler jivin', they'll surely want to test you again.
Date: Thu Sep 15 03:04:14 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Go to baseball-reference.com. Look at the arc of HR’s per year by Henry Aaron (the all-time leader in PED-free HRs) vs. Pujols in their early 30’s. Aaron’s HRs per year peaks. Pujols’ plummets. When Pujols was in his early 30’s, baseball started testing for PEDs. Do additional research (such as swapping Mays or McCovey for Aaron). Draw your own conclusions. The lure of PEDs in sports is huge. If anything, I’d guess that there are more PED users out there than even I expect.
Date: Fri Sep 16 18:10:50 2022
User: Klepp
Message:You might very well be onto something there Dr.B, the data from baseball-reference.com (bookmark of mine) can surely surely be trusted, and trustworthy data don't lie, no how.
I'll never forget as a six-year-old locking eyes on 44, as he stood around the batting cage...me enthralled to see the "44" that I knew meant home runs galore, maybe he feeling a tad odd that a towheaded little kindergartner could be so utterly wide-eyed to see him (his final season, HR king and legend by then, sure)...
Date: Sun Sep 18 16:19:54 2022
User: Katya
Message:Ryan Helsley fires immaculate inning, third in Cardinals history.
From KPLR/KTVI: "Nine pitches, nine strikes, three strikeouts. That's a rare baseball feat called an immaculate inning, and St. Louis Cardinals closer Ryan Helsley accomplished that Friday night.
Date: Wed Sep 21 11:50:32 2022
User: BuzzClik
Message:With 14/15 games left in the season:
As of the end of the day yesterday, Aaron Judge was leading the AL in batting, RBI, and HR. The batting title will be a close race, but the HR and RBI titles are likely his.
Astros and Dodgers have clinched their divisions. Mets and Braves are assured of playoff spots.
In the AL, five teams have been eliminated from playoff contention. However, the top three contenders for wildcard spots (Toronto, Tampa, Seattle) are separating themselves from the pack.
In the NL, six teams have been eliminated from playoff possibilities. The Braves at the very least have locked down a wildcard spot. San Diego, Philly, and Milwaukee are battling it out for the final two spots. San Francisco and Arizona have not been eliminated yet, but that may change by Monday morning.
Date: Wed Sep 21 22:26:00 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Even more impressive than the strong chance that Aaron Judge can achieve the triple crown is that he has tied Babe Ruth’s record for most (PED-free) home runs (60) within a 154-game season and he has 7 games to break it. MLB could be getting huge press now, and even for months previously, if they’d only clamped down on Barroid Bonds, Samoid Sosa, A-roid, and all the other drug cheats from the past two decades. Instead, one of the best seasons ever by a hitter is going by mostly unnoticed. .sigh
Date: Wed Sep 21 23:42:42 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Altho I hate the Yankess................"Amen" to all that. ^^^^
Date: Sat Sep 24 04:47:41 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Whatever one thinks of it...............Pujols smacked two more tonight, to get to 700.
Date: Sat Sep 24 17:58:38 2022
User: Klepp
Message:I'd like to see him tie 44.
Date: Sat Sep 24 18:22:14 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:He's made it very, very, very clear he's done. Which as you all imply - means very little these days. But I'm taking this guy at his word.
Date: Mon Sep 26 13:58:05 2022
User: MrFixit
Message:Only 2 people (including me) have signed my Important Petition. C'mon you guys! Doesn't anyone care about Albert?
Link: Pujols petition
Date: Mon Sep 26 20:13:36 2022
User: MrFixit
Message:Whoa my petition is taking off! Got 3 people now! Albert totally has to listen!
Date: Sun Oct 2 05:33:21 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Sadly...........Judge's accomplishments have not gotten the ink they deserve, as several here, esp. including Dr. Bombay above, have noted. Well-written short essay so concerning.
Link: We wuz robbed
Date: Sun Oct 2 19:06:39 2022
User: mrbuck
Message:Pujols hit # 702 today, and career RBI #2214, tying him with the Babe for second place all time, behind Hank Aaron.
mrbuck
Date: Mon Oct 3 21:17:10 2022
User: mrbuck
Message:#703 and #2216, he passed Ruth.
mrbuck
Date: Tue Oct 4 00:11:12 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:When ya get to nearly 1.5 X one of the significant metrics (1500) for sluggers getting into the Hallowed Grounds of Cooperstown, ya gotta think there might be a vote or 3 in your favor - even if you've struck out over 1400 times, and have a 'measly' .296 career BA. 🤔😄
Date: Tue Oct 4 05:28:09 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Put another way........................Pujols has AVERAGED 32 home runs and 100 RBIs a year for 22 years.
Sure, a lot of us could do it for, like, 10 years -- but to do it for 22 years is more than *twice* as hard.
Date: Tue Oct 4 16:05:31 2022
User: BuzzClik
Message:Playoffs in the AL are totally set. The NL is still in flux.
Date: Tue Oct 4 21:43:45 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:Aaron Judge has done it. Homer 62.! Breaks the AL season record, and the all of MLB PED-free home run record. Ironic that his first name is shared with one of the all-time greats and my favorite player when I was a kid- Henry Aaron. Woo Hoo.
Date: Tue Oct 4 21:46:08 2022
User: BuzzClik
Message:… and Aaron Judge his 62nd HR tonight. He stands alone in the AL and has the highest single season “clean” total in ML history.
Date: Wed Oct 5 04:01:33 2022
User: Klepp
Message:I suspect Barry Bonds (and Pete Rose, for obviously differing reasons) will make the HOF (albeit POSTHUMOUSLY).
Date: Wed Oct 5 10:54:40 2022
User: rbw--3
Message:For a good laugh, take a look at the before and after steroid pictures of McGwire, Sosa and Bonds.
Date: Wed Oct 5 12:51:13 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:Can't remember who it was, who (a former player) I noticed fairly recently commenting on Bonds..... Said even his *hat size* increased tremendously. Even had to get a custom-made batting helmet for him - that may even have involved some welding (it was vague).
Date: Fri Oct 7 07:32:29 2022
User: Klepp
Message:Playoffs beginning today, and I'd like [any playoff team other than Yankees Astros Cardinals Dodgers] to win the Series.
Date: Fri Oct 7 09:11:31 2022
User: Klepp
Message:I think I gotta root hard for the Jays, since they have Vlad, Biggio, and Bichette's KIDS on the infield...very cool...retro...historic...
Date: Fri Oct 7 11:34:19 2022
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:‘Stros are the favorite for many analysts. Mostly because the Dodgers will face stiffer competition thru the NL. I’m not happy that the opening round is three games at one venue. That means you can make the playoffs and not even get a home game to watch 🙁
Date: Fri Oct 7 11:39:07 2022
User: TNmountainman
Message:What!?! That's truly absurd. I guess designed to "make the regular season mean more"?
Date: Fri Oct 7 13:16:38 2022
User: BuzzClik
Message:I think the idea is to provide three “wildcard” games rather than one while eliminating travel and shortening the time involved. Less rust for the bye teams…
Post follow-up