Subject: Is Pudongpete, the current 8x4 leader, for real?

Date: Thu May 20 12:23:57 2010
User: hazey999
Message:
Seems to me, there's something fishy

Date: Thu May 20 14:16:41 2010
User: nogbad
Message:
I don't know about Pudongpete, but I achieved my (very modest) best streak by laboriously copying each deal into another freecell software that has unlimited undo, forward & back replay and a solver. Copied the successful result back to here. Took average about 9 minutes each...

Date: Thu May 20 14:33:55 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Groan....

Date: Thu May 20 14:57:40 2010
User: hotnurse
Message:
nogbad...........do you really call that a "streak"??? I call is using solving aides to achieve the results that others take time to figure out with their God-given brains. That's just my opinion. :(

Date: Thu May 20 16:15:40 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
At least nog is an HONEST cheater. Actually,theres a kind of perversion to being SO OBSESSED with solitaire that youd go out and buy a device to work the deals out for you just to get a nick above all others on a rather obscure website. The best part about a REAL streak is the fun you have playing it deal-by-deal.

Date: Thu May 20 17:30:17 2010
User: Dr.Xeena
Message:
I believe nog was pulling our legs. On the other hand, I don't care a tiny bit if someone wants to do that. Big deal. So what. I believe TN was groaning at the "joke". But I could be wrong on that too.

Date: Thu May 20 18:25:15 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Youre right,Dr.X! Most certainly is a joke. Youre sharp. Got me,nog. Not used to gettin got. Thing is it dont bother me one iota if someones cheating. Looking BACK though,I can see it is possible they do similar things to what nogbad mentioned and yes,I do find it odd that anyone would go thru all the trouble with virtually no reward.

Date: Thu May 20 20:02:12 2010
User: hotnurse
Message:
Well, once again, I fell hook,line and sinker. What can I say. I'm stoopid. Good to know that nog was only joking. I don't really care if someone cheats either. They are only cheating themselves. My point was that I wouldn't really call it a streak.

Date: Thu May 20 21:07:14 2010
User: mrbuck
Message:
Is it ok if I take performance enhancing drugs? If so, will HGH help my streaks? mrbuck

Date: Fri May 21 01:06:27 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Depends; yes.

Date: Fri May 21 01:32:28 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Actually, I tend to think nogbad is not joking.....

Date: Fri May 21 02:18:45 2010
User: Walt1
Message:
It must have been a joke. It is simply not credible for anyone to waste so much time and effort for a completely ersatz achievement.

Date: Fri May 21 06:37:42 2010
User: Snowguy
Message:
What made me think he/she was pulling our chains was the "by laboriously copying each deal into another freecell software" and "copied the successful result back to here." Not happenin'.

Date: Fri May 21 07:29:05 2010
User: roo
Message:
nogbad's average 8x4 time is 2:51

Date: Fri May 21 08:52:37 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
But he/she was particularly referring to the "best streak", which was 76(?).

Date: Fri May 21 10:57:23 2010
User: Dr.Xeena
Message:
I think he's probably joking. Why would he do that with *each deal*. I don't think so. But then, you never know. What about the original post, hazey999 thinks something is up with PudongPete, whose streak is high, and average time over 9 minutes. To answer that, I would say, yeah hazey999, he's for real until he says otherwise. I believe there was doubt for RGK who has almost a 20,000 streak. He's for real. PudongPete is only 12th on the all-time list.

Date: Fri May 21 13:53:59 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
He/she would do that with "each deal" out of habit, eventually, or maybe that aspect a slight hyperbole. But more likely just to see how far he/she could go like that, and doesn't normally do that for most of the 20,000+ games played. Why would someone say that about a streak of 76? This person plays almost exclusively 8x4, and wins "only" 89.76% of deals, so they're not an ultra-high-solve-% player, although they've played and won some tournaments. I'm going with not a joke, and feel pretty confident on that...

Date: Fri May 21 14:18:31 2010
User: Dr.Xeena
Message:
Let's look at PudongPete's stats: Individual Stats - PudongPete Total hours playing: 664.12 Last seen: Sun May 16 21:42:58 2010 Game in progress: No 8 x 4 current streak: 3985 best streak: 3985 plays: 3985 wins: 3985 win percent: 100.00% average time: 9:59 minutes daily streak: 0 best today: 0 best daily: 80 These are PudongPete's entire stats. I could imagine someone making that "joke" after reading those stats. Or maybe nogbad is pudong, or something.

Date: Fri May 21 14:30:27 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I'm referring to nogbad's statements about using an external program/solver - the second post in this thread.... Or maybe what *you* mean is that nogbad may have been making a cynical comment about how PudongPete possibly got his (slow) wins? I don't think that, but I can see it as a possibility...

Date: Fri May 21 14:50:13 2010
User: Dr.Xeena
Message:
Yes, on the cynical comment. :} No, on pudong's "cheating".

Date: Fri May 21 15:23:04 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Exactly,TN. When Dr.X brought up the joke aspect,I looked up PudongPetes stats,saw the HUGE 9-minute per game time and figured nogbad was cynically joking bout PudongPete. nogbads win streak is just 76,and his time is way too fast to have been 9-minutes per game,plus nogbads statement trails off...as if to keep one thinking! Plus,why would someone not only admit to cheating but to cheating SO SLOWLY,and 9 minutes ,of all times. Thats when I felt it was just a joke.

Date: Fri May 21 15:31:09 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Actually nogbads 22,000 games played wouldve hidden the 9-minutes/game streak,so discount that. Still think its a joke esp. since it trails off...

Date: Fri May 21 15:40:32 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Correct. And there's a big difference between a cynical comment/postulation, and a "joke" - thus the apparent confusion in our discussion. BUT........it's not "cheating", per se. There are no 'rules' against such. Most here would argue that it's against the "spirit of the game", but that's for each person to determine, based on why they play, etc. The link I posted has many comments on both sides for that m.o. I'll stay with thinking it's neither a "joke", nor a cynical comment, but admit the latter is possible.

Date: Fri May 21 17:21:53 2010
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:
Not only do I believe he's for real, I think he's Qingpukid or some such who is also one of the top 10 players. Goes by a few other nicks too. J

Date: Mon May 24 15:56:23 2010
User: PudongPete
Message:
Hey James, You are correct. I am for real. aka QingpuKid, RollingThunder. I solve every game myself. It's part of the challenge. Can't let a 4 x 8 ; 10 beat me. Second challenge is to keep the streak alive. This is one of the reasons the avg time is so high. I can play reasonably fast -- lots of games under 90 sec -- just a few under 60 sec. Not tournament wining or Mickey fast but reasonably fast. The problem is that to build a really long streak you need to be SURE not FAST. I know you know this because you have been there. The really difficult games take me sometimes 15 - 30 mins of UNINTERUPTED concentration. So you see I'm not rgk good. I confess I have used a deck of cards a few times in complicated games to make the initial moves and then analyse. Is this cheating??? If it is I'm guilty. The second time problem is that I use Mozilla Firefox. (I don't want to totally capitulate to Bill Gates.) In Freecell Firefox times out much more slowly than Explorer at 15 mins. When I play I get frequent interruptions and I don't bother to sign out. So for instance a game that would take me 2 mins without interruption may finish at 17 mins if interrupted once or even 32 mins if interrupted twice. Many difficult games I don't get the 20 mins uninterrupted concentration I need and end up with as much as 2 hours to solve -- mostly consisting of short periods of concentration and then an interruption and then starting the thought process over when I restart. The longer the streak the more pressure to keep it alive. I don't concern my self too much with time. I could lower my time by starting the game then immediately quitting but leaving the screen up to analyze and then to sign in once I've cracked the game in my head. I can't be bothered. I was saddened to see RGK just lost his streak. I think I was kind of subconsciously dropping my games per day to let him catch up even though I know once he overtook me he probably would drop me. cheers PP

Date: Mon May 24 17:32:42 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, there ya have it......... Is that "fishy" or not? Up to each to decide for him/herself.... Thank you, PudongPete/QingpuKid/RollingThunder.....

Date: Mon May 24 18:14:05 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
That answers the PudongPete part,still doesnt answer the nogbad question.

Date: Wed May 26 12:56:21 2010
User: hazey999
Message:
Thanks for all the replies, esp. PudongPete. I have tons of respect for you long streak players, since I haven't had a really long streak yet...but I'm working on it.

Date: Wed May 26 13:58:19 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
TNmountainmans got a particularly loooooong one I see. Congrats on what youve done,TN. Blows away anything Ive done. Had a 264 once.

Date: Thu May 27 21:19:37 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
??? Are you talking about 8x4? Or maybe 12x0? I'm a mere pedestrian in 8x4, compared to some others here. I really don't like that variant, particularly....and haven't played it much the last couple of years... Any variant where one has to win hundreds to get anywhere simply takes too much time to play (imo)...... But thanks!

Date: Thu May 27 22:05:41 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Thats not you on 8x4 with the 324 streak?

Date: Thu May 27 23:08:43 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, yes, it is, but that's nothing compared to these people who do thousands.......

Date: Fri May 28 01:49:53 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Well,its HUGE until I get there. Home come you dont play tourneys? Never seen Snowguy play any either. You and Snowy oughta play in Sundays Masters. We can ALL play and try to knock off "old" man firenze before he starts to believe in his own "mastery" over it.

Date: Fri May 28 03:00:37 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, mostly three reasons........ 1. I don't like to be tied down to committing to playing a certain amount of time - and certainly not a large block of time. When I'm on the computer, I'm almost always multitasking big time. But I did play a couple or so quickies maybe a couple-3 years ago.... 2. Probably more importantly, I have a very ancient and crappy computer system. You may have noticed me comment that it takes from 5 to 10 seconds for a game to load. I would be at such a distinct disadvantage that it wouldn't be a fair contest. 3. Temperamentally, I've never been one to be in a hurry about these kinds of puzzles and things. As a scientist, I'd MUCH rather solve something correctly the first time, than solve it more quickly in three tries, for example. Truly, I don't see the rush. So I play mostly to achieve high winning percentages, not streaks, and certainly not speed. However..........."all that being said".....I did originate the "Dr.TNmountainman" nick to *possibly* play tournaments, just for a fun change of pace, but don't think I've ever tried one. I am more interested now that there are the "deadly" (that's what they're called, right?) flavors, and have contemplated trying one or two of those. But again, being not totally immune to competitional influences, I hate to try something with such a big disadvantage (my system). Further, the original idea, and main topic of this thread is the m.o. that some streakers use to achieve their streaks. I have noted more than once on these threads about how now all streaks are suspect (but I wasn't the first to broach the subject; far from it) because of both the existence of "solvers", and because some players use external aids (deck of cards, for example), and I'm not passing judgment here, just sayin'....... So when I learned of these solving programs, a lot of the fun was removed for me, competitively, because you don't know who's doing what. That then makes the speed tournaments more attractive, relatively speaking, as a viable alternative metric - but that still goes against my easy nature. So.........maybe I will some time for fun, or if I get a new system sometime...... But mostly now, I just play against myself, going for winning as high a percentage of the games I play as I can.......and playing more as a stress relief tool... [And I will add that though I don't really follow the tournament scene, one can't avoid knowing there are people who can play games shockingly fast. I am in awe of that, and am mildly curious how I'd do, with a learning curve behind me and a decent system to work with......] But thanks for the thought/invitation!

Date: Fri May 28 03:53:40 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
TN,I hope you sometime quit caring about what others do in streaking because youre letting it affect your own enjoyment of it. You cant let any unknown evils (and theres many) do this to your way of thinking/doing things. Nothing concrete involved here,just fun. This computer is old too and even stalls if I lag too long trying to solve a game w/o hitting "save" and then trying again,so I need speed,which rarely trips it up,as in MOST non-deadlies. Anyway,until you get a newer system,good luck in streakin and keep havin fun. By the way,saw your old crossword post. I love doing my Sunday NY Times in ink. I write in my own stylized script and turn those babies into little works of art. Had little formal/religious education though,so theyre hard but the themes make em SO fun. The ink used to get my ma to make fun of my utter "arrogance" but the other(Friday)day,after she had a post-surgical scare and what now looks to be a fULL recovery,she admitted that SHE even does them in ink now!

Date: Fri May 28 10:21:42 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, I still enjoy freecell, or I wouldn't do it. But remember, I don't consider what I try for to be "streaking", the way most here would define it.... And since there are no "rules" against using whatever system one wants to use, I really don't get upset by any of it. As you say, it's just a game..... I have no idea what "crossword post" you are referring to - must have been a while ago....

Date: Fri May 28 11:41:25 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Thats good! The crossword thing appeared on a 2009 post. Probably cant find it anymore cuz,like this post,it was off-subject to rest of thread.

Date: Fri May 28 12:41:13 2010
User: d164280
Message:
I'm squarely in your corner on this one TN. I believe as you that no aids should be used in streaking. But without a consensus and a way to police said act, we are left with what we have, which, in my case, is still a lot of fun. In 11x0 I started out playing fast and had a win% of about 65%. I saw you and dade36 over 71% and thought I to should be there. Since then, I've logged over 9,000 games and raised my % to 71.81, and yes, I'm pretty proud of that achievement. Bottom line for me, with my long history in sports and now freecell, I love to push myself to see what I can do. In sports, when someone would stretch the rules or out and out cheat, it would motivate me to reach even higher, and if I were to win in that situation, I felt it doubled my glory. As for tournments, some people have trouble moving between them and streaking, I do not. My tournment ranking [average of all themes played] puts me in the top 25, no competition for the very top players who are still twice as fast as I am, but compared to all that compete, pretty good. And since our games are somewhat similar, if you could find the time to play tournments I'm sure you would do quite well. Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Fri May 28 14:28:32 2010
User: redberet
Message:
Nogbad can you tell me what software you use?

Date: Sat May 29 02:08:13 2010
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Speaking of 11x0s.......I just came across this dandy: 30148-5. Now 2/34. Took me two tries.

Date: Sat May 29 02:50:00 2010
User: !_--FAST-ISHAM--_
Message:
Took about WAY too many. So many apparent ways to solve yet not quite so.