Subject: really different covers
Date: Mon Nov 16 05:53:36 2020
User: outskirts
Message:But please don't confuse my kudos with my opinion(s), which I still have not given.
Date: Mon Nov 16 08:16:34 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:Actually, you have given seven opinions on this thread in the last 24 hours. Three in a single sentence.
I am not offering an opinion. Just counting.
Date: Mon Nov 16 08:29:10 2020
User: outskirts
Message:no
Date: Mon Nov 16 10:24:56 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:Whilst we wait with baited breath upon her proclamation (and how much longer can the suspense build? A week? A year?), let me point out that *I* have yet to reveal my opinion of the beignets at the French Market, broccoli-cheese casserole, OR, not one hint of such concerning the intricacies of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Just sayin'.
But besides that, outskirts.....................you (and your previous incarnations) have brought a considerable amount of 'good' music to this board; thus I feel sure you simply cannot accept that version of "Michelle" as anything but bad. We sorta know your tastes; and that you *do* have pretty good musical discernment. So there.
Date: Mon Nov 16 10:46:32 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:I gotta weigh in. Do I have “good taste”? TN recommended some Neil Young to me a bit ago, so I assume he thinks me kindred in some way. But I like rap (like saying “I like rock”...I do not like all rock or rap) which he considers crap.
Of course there is no such thing as an objective “bad” in music.
I forget who it was, but someone on this discussion board at one point was going on and on about how singers from the 60’s on to today have been horrible (Paul Simon generating particular scorn) and how Andy Williams is close to ideal.
For the record, I’m not a fan of Michelle by the Beatles or that cover.
James
Date: Mon Nov 16 10:54:03 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:While there are many, many, many, many shades of gray between "good" and "bad" in music (or in many other things), there is also absolute truth out there on both ends of that spectrum. Or so I would posit. And I think this qualifies as befitting one of those extremes.
Date: Mon Nov 16 13:10:30 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Because if TNmountainman says it's bad, it's bad.
Date: Mon Nov 16 13:50:57 2020
User: jamesblackburn-lynch
Message:Yeah, sorry, I don't agree. There is no objective "good" in music (as evidenced by how there is no artist that is universally loved or even tolerated) and no "bad."
My dog prefers the sound of an ambulance to any song ever produced. If that's going to far...that the objective "good" and "bad" are for humans only, I will move to China, where they use semi-tones in a way that I find intolerable. It all sounds out of tune to me. Or the recreations of Ancient Greek music. Just awful. I'm sure they would say the same about my favorite works.
In Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, the boys brought Beethoven to the 1980's. When he listed his favorite music he cited Mozart and Bon Jovi. Yeah, I don't think so. Beethoven would probably despise all our music. Music is cultural and he didn't go through the hundreds years of musical development.
This Board is a great place to demonstrate that. So many of us have stopped growing in our musical listening and consider all music past college days to be not music at all.
James
Date: Mon Nov 16 14:23:17 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:Agreed, james. Those with thin skins should not expose themselves to others' opinions.
Getting back to the cause of this kerfuffle, I will say that the shared version of "Michelle" struck me as the way William Shatner would have "sung" it as a young man: Forceful whispers, pregnant pauses, and the mandatory bellowing. In my opinion, Shatner's interpretation works on very few songs, but it was dead on for "Common People."
Link: Shatner and "Common People"
Date: Mon Nov 16 15:31:37 2020
User: outskirts
Message:I don't think y'all get this art that cover represents as it was soundtrack material juxtaposed over WWII footage. I'm sure you'll hate that too but love it that it wasn't acritical success.
Date: Mon Nov 16 15:33:41 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Plus the dude is Italian and that is the London symphony orchestra
Date: Mon Nov 16 15:35:13 2020
User: outskirts
Message:And I won't be giving my personal opinion over whether it's good or bad
Date: Tue Nov 17 00:14:13 2020
User: ix
Message:i wonder what some people's reaction would have been had it been an original piece they'd never heard before. i really liked it.
Date: Tue Nov 17 07:57:55 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Well if they hate that, there's a lot more where that came from. A double album full of Beatles covers by famous singers. Some not so famous, but mostly super-famous. I saw the movie in the theater when it came out, and have owned the vinyl album since then.
Date: Tue Nov 17 08:04:22 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Is it good? Is it bad? Do others like it? Do others dislike it? These are questions I don't ask myself.
Date: Tue Nov 17 08:31:34 2020
User: outskirts
Message:BC is not a music critic. He just thinks he is.
*fact, not opinion
Date: Tue Nov 17 11:00:01 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:"Date: Mon Nov 16 15:35:13 2020
"User: outskirts
"Message: And I won't be giving my personal opinion over whether it's good or bad"
You are universally admired for your uncanny ability to reserve judgment.
Date: Tue Nov 17 11:37:26 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:OK....................I went back and listened to it again, trying to see/hear it as "art" instead of a purely musical performance. To be honest I had forgotten that movie. And since I went and read about it, I can see why. And why I was never tempted in the slightest to view it.
And.................it still sucks. I think the Shatner allusion is pretty appropriate.
I can't explain why outskirts must "like" it, even tho she says she won't even ask herself that question. To each his/her own as far as "art" goes. I can at least comprehend someone being attracted to the concept as "art"; but musically, no. No chance.
All that said...........................I was too narrowly contextualizing my earlier statements to/within Western music, I realize. So I agree to some extent with james's comments regarding putting things into a larger context of world music. Music *is* cultural, but some of it is much more something I've in the past referred to obliquely as "music of the spheres" - something that's just already extant "out in the universe" that certain few people somehow "tap into". People like Beethoven, Mozart, or Hendrix. Thus............my belief is that there *are* absolutes of good and bad - but maybe it's harder to "get qualified" for those categorizations than I earlier stated above. While I don't like both Mozart and Bon Jovi, I most certainly like Mozart and Led Zeppelin, for example, or Mozart and Doc Watson.
Just for kicks, here are some comments from wikipedia about the movie:
"The film was severely mauled by critics and lasted just two weeks in cinemas before being pulled.
"Critics savaged the movie with gusto, audiences stayed away, and Fox promptly yanked the film from release. The reviewer in the New York Daily News wrote that the film's PG rating had to have stood for "Positively Ghastly".
So.............................not that I need any such affirmation, but it's good to know that others who *are* critics apparently think along the same lines as myself (and Buzz).
As a separate point......................at various times on this board, Denny, Buzz, and james have all advanced the theory that some people get "stuck" in whatever time period they came of "musical age". (VERY roughly paraphrasing, of course.) And the reference (I think) was that I might be one of "those people". I've disagreed with that theory for me personally, altho I think there definitely are examples of it, and it's definitely a thing, as one can observe by the still-prevalent existence of "classic rock" radio. (Which I generally despise, while still admiring the originality and creativity of said music. I just don't need to hear it anymore - 95% of the time.) And the fact that another generation never seemed to 'grow out of' the Big Band era. There is plenty of great music that's been released in recent times - but so much of it just is poor quality (yes, an admittedly nebulous term) compared to earlier stuff. I really didn't mean to open this back up again; only mentioning it tangentially. I guess because james already did above.
Date: Tue Nov 17 13:03:47 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:TN: Looking at this through my prism, I don't see you as stuck at all. I see you as a bit of a selective snowball, collecting music you like as you roll along, and keeping all of it as your collection continually grows.
Date: Tue Nov 17 13:28:32 2020
User: TNmountainman
Message:I actually like that description a lot - and will buy what you're sellin'. :)
Date: Wed Nov 18 09:45:57 2020
User: outskirts
Message:I'm only one or two degrees separated from so many fine musicians, just because of knowing Tom Petty! Not something I'm bragging about, just fact. And he wasn't famous then so it's no big deal.
Here's a different cover
Link: https://youtu.be/6nR5GSBN71U
Date: Wed Nov 18 09:52:22 2020
User: outskirts
Message:*it's reviews like that, that make me want to see and hear it.
*sigh*
Amateurs.
Date: Wed Nov 18 09:54:57 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Actually maybe it is a big deal that I know who the real guy was. Not anything but the real guy, and that's not something that anyone can ever really know, once fame hits. So yeah, it's a big deal.
Date: Wed Nov 18 10:20:21 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Omg I just remembered Harry had family around here. And for a long time there was a myth (that I believed and had a part in spreading) that he was from Palatka. I think in reality his aunt lived there.
Date: Wed Nov 18 10:24:25 2020
User: outskirts
Message:It all comes back to the Wilburys. Whoever said that, yes. And didja notice Jeff Lynne on ATAWWII?
Date: Tue Dec 22 06:32:57 2020
User: outskirts
Message:Maybe y'all can argue about whether this is "good" or not. Feh *yawn* I guess those who can't do, just criticize in their oh so tiresome and insufferable ways. Oh, and boring, which as we know, is the kiss of death.
Here is an attempt at resussitation
Link: The Muppets cover Queen
Date: Tue Dec 22 10:20:57 2020
User: BuzzClik
Message:If you religiously watched the Muppet Show back in the late '70s, that video is friggin' awesome. Every character in character singing a fun part that blends in perfectly. The Muppets always displayed a tireless level of originality and clever wordplay that made that show unique and wonderful. And, that video ties it up in a neat package.
As far as being a cover of Queen, this is certainly the thread to call home.
Date: Fri Feb 5 06:38:47 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Then the lyrics are perfect ix
Felt like getting high
Felt like I could cry
Epic
Date: Fri Feb 5 06:43:43 2021
User: redberet
Message:bad things happen to bogarts.
Date: Fri Mar 5 03:38:21 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:If Tom has no hole in his head, then how did his common sense leak out or otherwise escape?
Date: Fri Mar 5 07:53:20 2021
User: outskirts
Message:You're trash talking Tom Jones? Why?
The dude is awesome
Date: Fri Mar 5 09:30:13 2021
User: 82nd_Airborne
Message:Who needs common sense when you got Delilah.
Date: Fri Mar 5 10:02:48 2021
User: outskirts
Message:.giggle 82
And thanks for Malvena, Helen!!
And her voice reminded me of Sweet Emma!
Link: Sweet Emma Barrett
Date: Fri Mar 5 10:07:43 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Pete Seeger and Ramblin' Jack Elliot sitting with Malvena.
Emma played with the Preservation Hall Jazz Band in New Orleans.
Date: Fri Mar 5 14:31:15 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:Tho never a fan of Tom Jones, I know he's a "Sir", is he not? And I can respect is voice - and certainly respect it for 80(!!). But still that song is trash and a waste of his talent. Or maybe I'm mostly referring to the video. But in any event......his talents would be put to better use elsewhere. But.............who am I to criticize an artist's choices? But I can sure criticize the statement itself.
Date: Fri Mar 5 15:02:57 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Omg you obviously did not view the next video! I recommend it!
Date: Fri Mar 5 15:10:53 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:You mean the same song by Malvina Reynolds? I most certainly did, and that's not the first time I've seen that, either. Not sure of your point.
Date: Fri Mar 5 20:47:56 2021
User: outskirts
Message:So you're saying her song is trash? That's harsh. And TJ's is brilliant.
Date: Fri Mar 5 21:35:53 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:No, not at all. His *rendition* of it, and the video, are "misguided"? Not a good choice.
The song itself: fairly boss
T.J.'s version: misguided
T.J.'s video version: trash
Date: Fri Mar 5 21:46:41 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:And unlike earlier in this thread, in which you were (fake?-)coyly withholding your opinions - and making sure we knew that - it's good to now see you proferring some. It's really been somewhat difficult for us to continue to wonder where you stand on things. Good to be getting some revelations...........but for this?
Date: Fri Mar 5 22:53:46 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:Apologies, outskirts. That last post was too far into snark territory. You just bein' you. Peace.
Date: Sat Mar 6 07:42:00 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Good thing opinions aren't facts
Or I might give a crap
Date: Sat Mar 6 11:43:57 2021
User: BuzzClik
Message:Thank you, Ko'C, for an inspiring conversation.
I believe that Mr. Jones's absolutely best performance is captured at the link below.
Link: https://youtu.be/9z1wX69Swqk
Date: Sat Mar 6 11:47:06 2021
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:Date: Tue Nov 17 08:31:34 2020
User: outskirts
Message:
BC is not a music critic. He just thinks he is.
*fact, not opinion
=======================
And the *facts* still remain................................that version of "Michelle" you posted in this thread, AND the T.J. video are both terrible.
*fact, not opinion
Date: Sat Mar 6 12:41:20 2021
User: 82nd_Airborne
Message:Thinking about it, at first I didn't care for it myself, then I realized it was the performers and not him. Tom pulls it off and I like him as an angry rebellious old man, shows his range, albeit with his sense of humor. He's tried to shake that sex symbol forever, I wish I had his troubles.
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