Subject: yearly charity
Date: Sat Dec 18 18:07:26 2021
User: Denny
Message:Gave $12k to World Vision and UNICEF. Ad revenue ain't what it used to be but I'm continuing to donate $12k/year. Thanks for playing!
Date: Sat Dec 18 18:27:55 2021
User: olblue
Message:You're a good man, Denny!
Date: Sat Dec 18 18:35:07 2021
User: calicokid
Message:Very impressive!
Date: Sat Dec 18 19:30:13 2021
User: TitanicTony
Message:I would be very happy to resume paying an annual fee (say, $25)!! You could call it: "Premium Plus".
Date: Sat Dec 18 23:04:14 2021
User: roo
Message:Same here
Date: Sat Dec 18 23:10:48 2021
User: WRAC
Message:Thanks, Denny!
Date: Sun Dec 19 08:21:42 2021
User: Denny
Message:Titanic - thanks but I'm not planning on taking any money again. In the early days I thought I could fan the flame of Freecell with merchandise and Premium. We had an active social life around Freecell and a band of rowdy regulars in chat.
But nowadays we're just a tiny niche game site. Glossy games designed for the short attention span are a dime a dozen and Microsoft is no longer creating a host of new Freecell players. So time marches on. See graph below. We're at about 1/2 the level we were at in 2007.
There's plenty to glean from the many highly successful games about how to keep people coming back but I'm not willing to sacrifice any of the more serious sides in the interest of having "glossy".
Denny
Date: Sun Dec 19 08:24:54 2021
User: Denny
Message:And here's the charity page (altho it's linked from every page under the ad)
Link: charity
Date: Sun Dec 19 10:01:09 2021
User: TitanicTonys_olddeckofcards
Message:Denny. you mention ad revenue. The only ad I ever see is Federation for internet alerts on my secondary id. Does clicking on that generate revenue? Could you restore ads to this id? I don't mind clicking on ads for a good cause. Honestly.
Date: Sun Dec 19 10:56:40 2021
User: PARice
Message:Thank you!
Date: Sun Dec 19 12:10:58 2021
User: Crunch
Message:Denny, thanks!
Date: Sun Dec 19 13:13:38 2021
User: JackK
Message:Also Thanks
Date: Sun Dec 19 14:28:53 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Denny, if everyone had your sense of charity, we'd wipe out the national debt, help anyone in the world who needs it, then do amazing things.
Date: Sun Dec 19 16:16:41 2021
User: arrowhead
Message:Thank you.
Date: Sun Dec 19 19:28:47 2021
User: lightfield
Message:Ditto, Denny. So glad you chose those 2 organizations. I've been trying to build freecell.net interest by copying the Deep Thoughts on my social media pages
Date: Sun Dec 19 21:33:22 2021
User: redberet
Message:Here's to another 25 years of your philanthropic spirit (not just the charity but the free ride on freecell). May it last even longer than that.
Date: Sun Dec 19 22:20:02 2021
User: JamaicaJoe
Message:I am sorry but I had no idea this was all going on in the backroom. Freecell is a blessing to me and to find out that you are donating so much to so many speaks volumes of your heart. Keep up the good work and may many blessing be returned to you. I myself am a product of the charity of Americans and the USA. This is not a boast of me but a credit to the Spirit that lives in the collective hearts, past & present, that made this country great. Thank you for allowing me to participate.
Date: Mon Dec 20 01:50:56 2021
User: Uberman
Message:Hey Denny, you're awesome, and we're all very lucky and thankful to have somebody with great values running this site.
Date: Mon Dec 20 08:24:44 2021
User: GEMIMA
Message:Couldn't agree more with all the previous comments
Date: Mon Dec 20 09:34:02 2021
User: Denny
Message:Regarding clicking on ads ^^^, my advertising is based on impressions (views) not just clicks. So I don't think you need to click for me to get paid. I try to keep the ads pretty unobtrusive so my only ask would be don't run an ad blocker on this site. If you do run an ad blocker you can whitelist us.
Side note: running an ad blocker is a bit close to running out of the store without paying, at least that's how it feel to us site owners.
Denny
Date: Mon Dec 20 11:40:18 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
commendable contributions!
is it 'all site revenue' or 'all revenue after expenses' that goes to charity?
Date: Mon Dec 20 17:15:17 2021
User: Denny
Message:In its heyday we probably made about $12k/year after hosting costs and that's what set the contribution level. But traffic has dropped off and ad revenue per impression has diminished so I'd be lucky to make about $6k now. I pick up the slack from my vaccine job.
Denny
Date: Mon Dec 20 19:02:35 2021
User: _.!._
Message:Denny,great charity work youre doing. On site popularity,maybe changing the domain name might help attract players. Like"freecellwars.net." or "competitionfreecell.net" or "freecellolympics.net" or maybe keep the domain and change the "...draining workplace.." to "...competitive solitaire since 1996".
Date: Mon Dec 20 22:32:42 2021
User: _.!._
Message:...or freecellMAX.net with emphasis on the max,(maybe tilted and in red or something) might help. Then change the "draining workplace..." into "freecell on steroids!". Cuz,really,this site is very unique. Not boring like ordinary freecell. Just an idea.
Date: Mon Dec 20 23:18:59 2021
User: Denny
Message:The thinking on domain names is they need to be short and easy to type. I had freecell.com but got offered an obscene amount of money so I sold that in 2007. You can see a little delta in the graph but not too bad.
But it's been a pretty steady linear decline ever since. I'm pretty happy with freecell.net and I'm not really inclined to go fight tooth and nail with the sites that are serious about what's called "SEO" (search engine optimization)
Denny
Link: usage graph (again)
Date: Mon Dec 20 23:30:02 2021
User: redberet
Message:My thoughts, it's true that most new members are more likely to be our peers and not a new generation.
While in the past revenue allowed the amounts given, it's too heavy a burden for you to take up the slake for the decline. Especially since it's done in the name of this site. I think it's time to consider it annual donations rather than premium. I speak for myself, but I hope it's shared by all.
Date: Tue Dec 21 05:56:52 2021
User: _.!._
Message:Denny,youre so correct. They (domains) need to be brief,but theres got to be some way to advertise this site for what it is. What it is is the best freecell site ever. It has to be advertised somehow. You deserve so much more because NOBODY does it like you and your techies. Ive been studying this site for the last month or so and found out so much about how its structured. It is,by far,the best freecell site. You deserve so much more. Thats all.
Date: Tue Dec 21 07:58:36 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
pro: no app required. freecell.net runs on any web browser
con: freecell.net has no presence on any android or ios app store
my point is that people looking for a freecell app for their phone or tablet won't find freecell.net.
PWA (Progressive Web Application) might be a way to deal with it. In its simplest form its an app that fires up Chrome for your website. Upside is its an app at the store. downside is you still have to go thru all the poop required for creating an app.
Date: Tue Dec 21 11:14:14 2021
User: Denny
Message:Yeah, I've thought of doing an app but really there's nothing here that needs a native app. It's just pixels on the screen. I think there are dev tools that basically just frame an HTML/Javascript page and render as a app. That's about all I'd need. But then I'd need to go thru all the hassle of app certification, etc. Given the recent craziness in my industry I really haven't had much time to devote. I was hoping to finish the Elo stuff next.
Regarding revenue, maybe I'll set up the ol' digital tip jar or something. I feel pretty lucky the money is not really much of an issue for me and I'm happy driving a box on wheels as opposed to a beemer or Mercedes. Now my teenage son thinks we should totally have a Bentley or a Lambo and can't figure out why I'm so apathetic...
Denny
Date: Tue Dec 21 11:24:09 2021
User: outskirts
Message:I avoid apps totally! Hate apps! I bet I'm not the only one! Like for example I used to think I had to have my bank app, and it was quirky. Found out most stuff like that can be accessed on a browser, with no app. So I got rid of it, and the browser version is just the same, except no quirk. Start spreading the news!
Date: Tue Dec 21 11:27:20 2021
User: outskirts
Message:Digital tip jar sounds good
Date: Tue Dec 21 11:33:34 2021
User: TNmountainman
Message:As I've noted before, I don't do apps at all. And I'm befuddled by the mania of so many advertisers, organizations, etc., to have one install them. I don't understand that push. Is there somehow ad revenue that comes from that? Or do they get revenue from the evil overlords (MS, Apple, Samsung, google, etc.)? Since I have no google, MS, Samsung, or Apple accts., I have no experience with the "app stores". Serious question; I don't understand the strong desire to 'make' one install them.
Date: Tue Dec 21 12:43:12 2021
User: redberet
Message:What I think might work is an annual charity drive. Towards the holidays you can set up a gofundme. If they can do it for a wall. then this qualifies. It would give us a chance to help bridge the gap. It is practical and doable, and it is for charity.
Date: Tue Dec 21 14:38:32 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
why bother? it won't attract any new players
I think its great that Denny is topping up the donation but its misleading to say its from this site's revenue.
The top-up is a donation from Denny, not the site.
Date: Tue Dec 21 15:06:51 2021
User: redberet
Message:The name of the thread is yearly charity not new players. The top up is what is not necessary. If a 100 of us donated 20 bucks that would equal 2000 bucks. That's why bother.
Date: Tue Dec 21 15:10:35 2021
User: outskirts
Message:A tip jar connected to paypal/ venmo would serve all year round and probably wouldn't take a percentage, like gofundme does.
Date: Tue Dec 21 19:08:44 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
red, if the top up is not necessary then why do we need a mechanism to contribute to the top up
Date: Tue Dec 21 19:21:21 2021
User: _.!._
Message:Denny,your sons right. For this site,somebody deserves a Lambo. No doubt.
Date: Tue Dec 21 19:32:46 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
Denny, you don't have to port the website to an app. That minimal PWA thing is just a glorified bookmark which redirects to the website. The important part is having a presence at the store. You can say right in the description that you don't need the app, just go to the website, even link to it.
Date: Tue Dec 21 20:37:26 2021
User: redberet
Message:What I'll say is that Denny did not lower the amount this year and it came out of his own pocket. What you're talking about is hypothetical users, while we are here now.
Date: Tue Dec 21 23:50:49 2021
User: MrFixit
Message:Man, this got me to go look at ad revenue. It's pretty abysmal. My traffic is about 1/2 the glory days and my ad revenue is about 1/4 so I'm barely covering hosting. Sheesh, I guess I need to pay more attention.
Regarding the phone apps, yeah I know the app wouldn't be much work but the process of getting it submitted and approved and in the stores sounds like a pain. And I'm getting my demographic here is not big on apps or even smartphones. I'm hoping to spend my cycles on finishing the Immediate Elo stuff next.
Mike and I are probably going to move to cheaper hosting. You can get a VM for a fraction of the cost of dedicated hardware now. So that'll help. But go play some of the modern apps that Freecell is up against. IMHO they're all carbs, but still they're tasty.
Denny
Date: Wed Dec 22 00:39:35 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
demographic?
you don't have any demographic data but you can browse my reports to see where the play is going
roughly 2/3 of your daily players (and plays) are exclusively 8x4 and they don't say anything in discussion
Link: cellmate edaily mis reports
Date: Wed Dec 22 09:21:13 2021
User: MrFixit
Message:cellmate - Wow very cool report.
Regarding demographics, I think I used one of those site traffic analysis sites years ago. We skew to a much older demographic. We have few millenials and very few gen Z. It tends to be folks who got hooked playing Freecell back when Microsoft was shipping it as one of the few built in games and before the glut of games on the Internet.
8x4 is definitely by far the big dog and less serious play is the norm. But it's the 5% who sweat the details and that are the most vocal that make this site more interesting from a "serious Freecell" perspective.
We were one of the first game sites on the Internet and there for a while I thought we were destined to be a pretty big deal. But I've got a more sober view of things now what with all the competition and variety.
A major factor is I've slipped off the 1st page of both Google and Bing for simply "freecell". The site used to get pretty high ranking because it had been around a relatively long time and the domain name was a keyword. When I switched from freecell.com to freecell.net I followed closely the rules and was able to keep my search engine ranking intact (looking at the usage graph you can see a fairly small doink in mid-2007 but that's all)
I'm not sure how those other sites have boosted their ranking, maybe it's cuz they've got a lot more casual games and linked to by "best game sites" pages, dunno. I could spend a bunch of time trying to do that arcane art of SEO but it's not something I'm terribly interested in. Feel free to advise.
Denny
Link: usage (again)
Date: Wed Dec 22 16:17:05 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
It's a hobby. Breaking even is a goal. Anything more is gravy.
VM sounds good to reduce expenses. Only problem with VM is you'll be sharing the hardware with other VMs so you _might_ notice performance loss if the others get busy at the same time.
Can't avoid SEO. There's plenty of beginners guides. Shouldn't take long to cover the basics.
What's your main interest... more users? more revenue? nurturing the serious players?
I'm reluctant to disable ad blocker. I'll do it for this site for a few days.
Odd that you see an ad when "You Win" but not when "Sorry You Lose"
Maybe anonymous plays should be hit with more ads
Also like Tony mentioned... i see the same ad all the time
Date: Thu Dec 23 11:43:55 2021
User: MrFixit
Message:I decided to only display an ad when you win. Losing is relatively infrequent and I figured you didn't need salt in the wound.
Repeat ads mean you've hit the depth of the pipeline, which must not be all that deep altho I see tons of advertisers. Maybe you're not targeted.
Yeah, it is a hobby, I just hadn't realized how much it had become like my other money losing hobbies! :-)
Oh well, it's paying it's way, just not making the coin like it used to. I guess I need to quit pretending we're generating revenue for charity, huh?
Date: Thu Dec 23 14:09:57 2021
User: cellmate
Message:
A reality check now and then never hurts
You have a great site here Denny
Something for everyone
An amazing 25+ year history
A loyal following
Keep on keeping on!
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