Subject: was this on the news?
Server time: Thu Sep 24 17:24
Date: Tue Feb 26 12:58:03 2008
User: ix
Message:two things here:
1. uh, yes
2. tehran times?
.eye hyst
Date: Tue Feb 26 13:01:05 2008
User: hysterical
Message:lol, i did some googling and found other stories.
Date: Tue Feb 26 13:03:10 2008
User: hysterical
Message:found the tehran times story while looking for more up to date satellite images. i do like other countries' takes on the U.S.
Date: Tue Feb 26 13:12:22 2008
User: ix
Message:.e jots down some quick notes about hysterical in his little book, including known aliases
Date: Tue Feb 26 13:41:27 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Well, all that aside, I can appreciate this:
Unlike the Chinese firing upon their own satellite while it remained in orbit (creating an expanding cloud of debris traveling at thousands of miles per hour) the US waited until their satellite was decelerating and descending.
The US's satellite's fragments would burn up in the earth's atmosphere or fall harmlessly to earth, instead of becoming a major threat to other satellites and to astronauts and cosmonauts in space. Any of the Chinese satellite's fragments is capable of damaging or demolishing a satellite or space-walker who may get hit.
Actually, the Chinese test showed a greater ability to hit a space target, because their satellite was smaller and still in a higher orbit. Hopefully, the US didn't show all its cards with this shoot-down.
Date: Tue Feb 26 22:32:09 2008
User: roo.
Message:Yes I saw it.
Date: Tue Feb 26 22:44:50 2008
User: julia
Message:I heard about it a week before they did it.
Date: Fri Feb 29 14:47:24 2008
User: ponychick
Message:yeah, me too jules, we had a memo about "emergency management" procedues and "first contact".
Date: Fri Feb 29 14:53:44 2008
User: mrbuck
Message:I pulled the trigger.
mrbuck
Date: Fri Feb 29 18:05:44 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:Anyone watch PBS Nova's "Astrospies" An elite corps of secret U.S. astronauts is trained to gather intelligence on the Soviets during the Cold War via satellite. Meanwhile the USSR is doing the same thing...ooooooo what a surprise. President Johnson lied to the American public as to what these astronauts were gathering.
Date: Fri Feb 29 18:19:19 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Accpording to the attached news item, the project never really got off the ground.
Link: Astrospies
Date: Sat Mar 1 03:08:40 2008
User: julia
Message:good job Snow
sometimes you make me proud
Date: Sat Mar 1 14:26:50 2008
User: hysterical
Message:No, Bird, I missed that, as I suppose Snowguy did too, because I'm sure Nova must have picked up on that.
They have old and new spy pics at the pbs site.
Link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/astrospies/
Date: Sat Mar 1 14:47:28 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:yes, Nova covered the whole story, I don't know what snowguy and julia's praise of snowguy is about...certainly it isn't new information outside of the Nova story.
Date: Sat Mar 1 17:17:58 2008
User: hysterical
Message:I agree, what what their point, I wonder?
Date: Sat Mar 1 22:55:23 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:From hysterical's link above:
(snip)...These men, 17 in all, were set to make history in space as the first military astronauts, performing covert reconnaissance from orbit. Yet while NASA's astronauts were gracing magazine covers and signing autographs, the MOL teams were sworn to secrecy; most of the program's details remain classified even today. And MOL was canceled in 1969, before any of its astronauts went into space.(snip)
My point was what I posted above. (Like many military programs) "...it never really got off the ground."
By the way, I was previously aware of the program.
Date: Sat Mar 1 23:17:34 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:But, now that you bring it up, I am a bit puzzled by one of your tidbits above: ("...President Johnson lied to the American public as to what these astronauts were gathering...")
Okay, since they apparently never left the ground, and they never flew any orbital missions (spy or otherwise) what exactly were they... "gathering"?
One more question: are pilots who trained for space missions, but never actually flew into space, really astronauts? Just wundrin'...
Date: Sun Mar 2 00:01:09 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Still, it's a moot point that "they" never left the ground. The spy satellites did, without "them", because technology made "them" redundant.
So what exactly was your point? And I don't really feel comfortable discussing a program I didn't see.
Date: Sun Mar 2 00:13:58 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Spy satellites have been arouund for decades. People have known about them for nearly that long. The issue was "spying astronauts."
It was asserted (or at the least implied) above that astronauts were gathering information secretly from an orbital platform and that the government lied about it.
Then, don't. I didn't see the program either, but your own link explained it very nicely. People were trained to fly missions and didn't. That's a pretty simple concept.
Or, so it seems to me.
Date: Sun Mar 2 11:03:21 2008
User: hysterical
Message:"That's a pretty simple concept."
EXACTLY, NERFBALL!!
Date: Sun Mar 2 11:24:05 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Hysterical, I was trying to stay out of confrontations with you and the bird. But, on the other hand I exercised my right to provide a brief input, as I did in my first post, above.
However, you both commented on me in your posts. So, I felt it necessary to explain. Now, you are starting the name-calling again.
But, I won't be drawn in. I will discuss the issue at hand (like wheteher incipient astronauts ever "gathered" anyhing, and nobody has demonstrated that they have.) And that's all.
Date: Sun Mar 2 11:50:54 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Perhaps I thought your "explanation" was a little TOO simple.
As for Birdhaus, she can speak for herself, but I think it's ovbious what she meant, and you are nitpicking. Who exactly is trying to "draw someone in"?
Date: Sun Mar 2 11:55:33 2008
User: bucktoldmetostopkillinggoldfish
Message:birdhaus said, "An elite corps of secret U.S. astronauts is trained to gather intelligence on the Soviets during the Cold War via satellite. Meanwhile the USSR is doing the same thing...ooooooo what a surprise. President Johnson lied to the American public as to what these astronauts were gathering."
Snowguy said, "It was asserted (or at the least implied) above that astronauts were gathering information secretly from an orbital platform and that the government lied about it."
Was that implied in another post? Are you just calling out that the astronauts (and this particular project) didn't finish gathering the intelligence in the original intended manner -- that they only trained and worked towards doing so?
Date: Sun Mar 2 13:54:53 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:From the information tendered, I would conclude that the "astronauts" were only in training to be astronauts, on an orbital station. Since, according to the information shown, they never actually lifted off, it appears to me that they never gathered any information; at least as astronauts. (I question how they could have "finished" gathering the intelligence if they had not actually begun to gather it...)
In fact, never having lifted off into orbit, they might not have been "astronauts" at all, although their astronaut training might have technically qualified them to be referred to as such. NASA, the military, or Space Command's call, not mine.
For example, say a special-forces team had been in training for an intervention into Russia on a spy mission. But, they never actually departed the US. Did they "gather information?" Perhaps satellites did. Spy planes might have. The CIA or some other agency might have. But, did they, back at their base in California, gather intelligence?
"As for Birdhaus, she can speak for herself, but I think it's ovbious what she meant, and you are nitpicking. Who exactly is trying to "draw someone in"?" You and she, when you name me in your posts.
Date: Sun Mar 2 14:23:46 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Me thinks it's you. Your above post is nitpicking semantic bullshit. And from someone who admittedly did not watch the Nova program.
Date: Sun Mar 2 14:27:42 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Can you say "big picture"? Or "Oh look, there is a splinter on the frame."
Date: Sun Mar 2 14:50:02 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Of course, I didn't watch it, and neither did you. But, the information is still available, and I reviewed it. (I didn't see the Second World War, either, by the way, but I read lots about it.)
But, this has deteriorated into a non-productive mess. So, I'm backing out.
Date: Sun Mar 2 14:59:07 2008
User: hysterical
Message:I wish you would, if this is the best you can do.
Date: Sun Mar 2 15:13:12 2008
User: hysterical
Message:What do you think NOVA's response might be to your little "point"? You don't have to answer that, since you're out.
Date: Sun Mar 2 15:38:47 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Even if you read a transcript of the show, you would still be missing a wealth of visual information, I'm sure. Without even seeing it, I can say that with confidence, because this is NOVA.
Birdhaus asked if anyone had seen the show. She didn't ask if you had seen WWII.
You seem to be saying that the fact they didn't leave the ground, disqualifies the entire project, so why bother watching.
I know I will be watching next time it shows up.
Date: Sun Mar 2 16:00:09 2008
User: hysterical
Message:Date: Mar 1 22:55
User: Snowguy
Message:
From hysterical's link above:
(snip)...These men, 17 in all, were set to make history in space as the first military astronauts, performing covert reconnaissance from orbit. Yet while NASA's astronauts were gracing magazine covers and signing autographs, the MOL teams were sworn to secrecy; most of the program's details remain classified even today. And MOL was canceled in 1969, before any of its astronauts went into space.(snip)
My point was what I posted above. (Like many military programs) "...it never really got off the ground."
By the way, I was previously aware of the program.
"the MOL teams were sworn to secrecy; most of the program's details remain classified even today. And MOL was canceled in 1969, before any of its astronauts went into space.(snip)"
Gee, do ya think maybe they didn't tell us something? They may have indeed left the ground, for all we know. But my whole point is, that is a MINOR point. In case anybody didn't get that.
Date: Sun Mar 2 17:05:57 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Stop embarrassing yourself.
Date: Sun Mar 2 17:20:43 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:That was out of line, and I apologize.
But, the very idea of unnoticed space flights to, and the construction of an orbital space station (within full view of the radars and observation facilities available) was a tad--- shall we say ludicrous?
If the program ever comes on again, I will likely watch it, if I become aware of its showing. And, my TiVo is pretty good at finding those thoings. But, it will be out of curiosity, because I doubt it had information beyond that which is otherwise available.
Maybe we should just ask Drudge?
Date: Sun Mar 2 17:40:37 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:From a TIME article dated Sept 3, 1965: (in part- linked below)
>>But the most significant work will be for defense. MOL can be used to reconnoiter targets, detect nuclear blasts and spot missile firings. Already the Navy has asked the Air Force to investigate whether MOL can keep track of Russian and Red Chinese submarines. Eventually, MOL will be able to double as a floating fortress capable of intercepting and knocking down hostile spacecraft.<<
So, in 1965 at least, it was public knowledge. But, of course, no television progtram ever practiced sensationalism.
Wikipedia, among other sources, also has some interesting information on the program.
Link: Time mag, 1965
Date: Sun Mar 2 21:24:18 2008
User: julia
Message:how many astronauts can you fit in a satellite?
Date: Sun Mar 2 22:06:33 2008
User: mrbuck
Message:Those old Plymouth Satellites would hold at least 6 in comfort, especially the 4 door sedans.
mrbuck
Date: Sun Mar 2 23:26:56 2008
User: hysterical
Message:OMG, We had a Satellite in the 60s! Electric Blue!
Date: Mon Mar 3 05:12:49 2008
User: Klepp
Message:Does any nitwit honestly refute the contention that we (the U.S.) are at every single turn secretly crushing the baddies with any and all of our (now available, newest, latest) cutting-edge scientific technologies?
To do so is certainly ignorant; though admittedly, it allows us all to sleep more soundly at nights.
Understand, please: I pass no moral judgment upon that which I have just written; it's merely how it is.
Date: Mon Mar 3 09:15:07 2008
User: bucktoldmetostopkillinggoldfish
Message:Snowguy, your writing left it unclear (IMO) which thing you were nitpicking in birdhaus' post, or if you were even referring to someone else's post. That's why I asked a couple of questions to figure out just what problem you were having there.
I'm sorry if that offended you, but I must confess that I don't care any longer, so there's no need to try to clear that up on my account.
Date: Mon Mar 3 11:59:38 2008
User: hysterical
Message:ditto
Date: Mon Mar 3 12:14:28 2008
User: hysterical
Message:be it noted my previous post was number 42. Actually, it was the 42nd reply, so if you count the original post, buckfish's was post number 42. I think we have found our answer, buckfish.
Date: Tue Mar 4 07:40:10 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Bucktoldme, I am not typically offended by any response. The original post I responded to stated that secret astronauts were gathering information and the president was lying to the American people.
"President Johnson lied to the American public as to what these astronauts were gathering."
(That was a pretty powerful accusation. Aparent secret space-based spying and a lying president.) Btw, I wonder how a "lying president" squares with a Time magazine article laying out the program, years before the first intended flight...
So, I responded simply: "Accpording to the attached news item, the project never really got off the ground."
Through the course of the thread, I was "nitpicking" neither; just answering some other comments, and occasionally presenting references. After that, initial post, it was just a matter of trying to answer the conspiracy theorists. I believe I (again) learned my lesson. Don't get involved with the conspiracy theorists.
Date: Tue Mar 4 09:19:10 2008
User: bucktoldmetostopkillinggoldfish
Message:"I'm sorry if that offended you, but I must confess that I don't care any longer, so there's no need to try to clear that up on my account."
Date: Tue Mar 4 09:42:20 2008
User: mercury
Message:If you do not care, why do you read?
Date: Tue Mar 4 10:15:11 2008
User: bucktoldmetostopkillinggoldfish
Message:mercury, context is important in human language. When I said "I don't care any longer," the context was that I no longer was interested in "just what problem [Snowguy was] having there."
I read a line or two of Snowguy's response, in order to see if there was likely any new material that didn't have to do with his previous nitpicking. It seemed like there wasn't, so I simply repeated my comment that he didn't need to try to clear it up on my account, in case he missed it. (He's certainly free to go on explaining to others, as he pleases.)
My "not caring" did not rise to the level of giving up reading generally. I continue to read content that has nothing to do with Snowguy's nitpicking, and in fact, that's how I noticed your question.
I hope that answers it.
Date: Tue Mar 4 10:53:16 2008
User: mrbuck
Message:Can you use less words to answer it? Also, your shoe's untied.
mrbuck
goldfish freedom fighter
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